Eastwood double pack

[Skybird]

"Letters from Iwo Jima" and "Flags of our Fathers" has been released on DVD over here. I am wondering if they are worth the investement. Customer feedback and movie critics say Iwo Jima is the better of the two. If you have seen the films at cinema, what is your opinion on both movies?

[Sailor Steve]

I missed Flags Of Our Fathers, but Letters From Iwo Jima in my opinion puts Eastwood up there on the list of Great Directors Of All Time. It's one of the best movies I've ever seen - gripping, exciting, big (great CGI images of the American landings and B-24s bombing Suribachi) and small (as in intimate portraits of the individuals' home lives).

You might want to make sure you know your Japanese WWII history, though; when the the new commander arrives unanounced and everyone is afraid he'll be angry at their having no reception prepared, he says (paraphrasing from memory) "After what happened to Yamamoto, they didn't even tell ME when I was coming!"

As I said, it impressed me as one of the best I've seen. I can't recommend it enough. Two-pack? Even if Flags isn't nearly as good, I think I'll buy it that way.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Have not seen these yet, look and sound very good

RDP

[Heibges]

Probably the two best war movies I have ever seen with the exception of maybe "The Caine Mutiny", "Mister Roberts", and "Biloxi Blues".

[Skybird]

Eastwood is an exceptionel director, some of his works I rank amongst the best movies i know, especially "Million Dollar Baby". "Unforgiven" and "The Bridges of Madison County" - each of these is very special, and in a unique way related to Eastwood's very own style.

So I will start with Iwo Jima first, I heared more good about this one, than about Flags, but probably I will see Flags some time later anyway. My benchmark for war movies is "The thin red line", although that is somewhat unprecise, since Malick alsmost transcended the genre and made a movie that is not typical for it, but goes far beyond it's definition.

If you don't know Red Line, go and get it. One of the best movies ever made, imho. Have seen it many times now, but it still touches the bottom of my soul, and makes it vibrating. sean Penn, George Clooney and John Travolta accepted to work without being payed, so that the movie could be created with the available money - that much trust they had in Malick, and that much they wanted to participate. Judging by the impressive result, they were right. The movie won several movie awards and Oscar nominations, but Spielberg's Private Ryan in that year cleaned all Oscars - undeserved. Red Line is far better than Private Ryan.

[Sailor Steve]

I was very put off by Saving Private Ryan, though I think Schindler's List is one of the all-time greats. I likely won't ever watch it again, but that's for obvious reasons.

[Heibges]

Ryan is a total ripoff of Sahara.

Sahara- Boggie leading men to find the one well in the Sahara, before convincing his men to fight off an overwhelming attack by the Germans, only to be saved by the German's thirst.

Ryan- Hanks leading men to find one soldier in Normandy, before convincing his men to fight off an overwhelming attack by the Germans, only to be saved by Mustangs.

[Skybird]

Ryan deserves credits for having been the first to show the cruelty of the war and especially the beach landing with such uncompromising realism. Before, WWII movies always were "correct" and clinical, glossing over the grim reality (with the exception of "Steiner I -The Iron Cross", maybe). For many in the audience, Ryan's brutal pictures were a shock. I remember well the group of young adults sitting in front of me, two couples, with beers and popcorn, and joking and so on. After twenty minutes one women left, silently crying, her partner went after her and later came back alone. And after the show was over, their beers were half full, and the popcorn looked mostly untouched. A war movie that does not have a comparable effect, is making entertainment of war. Which is disgusting. The market is full of these. Shame.

The question of the movie (how many lives are worth the life of just one) is worth to be discussed. All in all Spielberg did a good job, but not that superior outstanding piece of work many were seeing it as.

What I did not like: that in the end there is pathos again coming in. I hate pathos. This they avoided when filming Band of Brothers, which technically used the same grim approach on the brutality of war. This makes BoB more unbiased and neutral - and especially because of this it is such a great movie (series).

I would not say Ryan is a bad movie. But in comparison, Red Line leads so very far beyond it's scope. the film is almost a meditation.

As good war movie especially on the Nazi era, I also recommend the German b/w-movie "Die Brücke."

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ryan deserves credits for having been the first to show the cruelty of the war and especially the beach landing with such uncompromising realism. Before, WWII movies always were "correct" and clinical, glossing over the grim reality (with the exception of "Steiner I -The Iron Cross", maybe). For many in the audience, Ryan's brutal pictures were a shock. I remember well the group of young adults sitting in front of me, two couples, with beers and popcorn, and joking and so on. After twenty minutes one women left, silently crying, her partner went after her and later came back alone. And after the show was over, their beers were half full, and the popcorn looked mostly untouched. A war movie that does not have a comparable effect, is making entertainment of war. Which is disgusting. The market is full of these. Shame.

The question of the movie (how many lives are worth the life of just one) is worth to be discussed. All in all Spielberg did a good job, but not that superior outstanding piece of work many were seeing it as.

What I did not like: that in the end there is pathos again coming in. I hate pathos. This they avoided when filming Band of Brothers, which technically used the same grim approach on the brutality of war. This makes BoB more unbiased and neutral - and especially because of this it is such a great movie (series).

I would not say Ryan is a bad movie. But in comparison, Red Line leads so very far beyond it's scope. the film is almost a meditation.

As good war movie especially on the Nazi era, I also recommend the German b/w-movie "Die Brücke."

I found Band of Brothers to be a little too revisionist, but what was I expecting with a D-List historian like Stephen Ambrose. Ambrose presents anti-semitism in a way that it is trivialized into a joking matter. This is almost as bad as Spielberg choosing to pretty much ignore it in Ryan.

My dad was a combat infantryman in the Pacific in WWII, and he fought from Guadalcanal to the Phillipines. He definitely saw no glory in war. To cure me of any misconceptions he made me read Naked and the Dead at a totally unsuitable age. My point being, is that if it isn't like Naked and the Dead, I don't find it realistic.

These works I do find like Naked and the Dead.

The Caine Mutiny, novel by Hermann Wouk (Like Naked and the Dead, the edited all references to anti-semitism in the US Military out when they made the movies)

Biloxi Blues, play and movie by Neil Simon

The Thirteenth Valley, novel by John DelVeccio (Black vs White racial politics is explored in this fantastic book. It just so happens the only really competent officer in the book is Black.)

Flags of Our Fathers. Substitute long train ride, for long patrol in the jungle, and we have a movie with almost the same narrative as Naked and the Dead. Eastwood uses American Indians instead of Jews to show that the good guys really weren't all that good. Flags is definitely not what I would call a "patriotic" movie like Ryan. Maybe Speilberg was afraid to bring this stuff up, but he got Eastwood to in Flags, since he was an executive producer.

Jarhead - amazingly almost the same story as Naked and the Dead. A long patrol which ends in a mission that is not completed. This memoir/movie shows really how far we have come since WWII. Instead of the Marines being racist and mysogenistic, they are only mysogenistic. You've come a long way baby.

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I missed Flags Of Our Fathers, but Letters From Iwo Jima in my opinion puts Eastwood up there on the list of Great Directors Of All Time. It's one of the best movies I've ever seen - gripping, exciting, big (great CGI images of the American landings and B-24s bombing Suribachi) and small (as in intimate portraits of the individuals' home lives).

You might want to make sure you know your Japanese WWII history, though; when the the new commander arrives unanounced and everyone is afraid he'll be angry at their having no reception prepared, he says (paraphrasing from memory) "After what happened to Yamamoto, they didn't even tell ME when I was coming!"

As I said, it impressed me as one of the best I've seen. I can't recommend it enough. Two-pack? Even if Flags isn't nearly as good, I think I'll buy it that way.

I loved Iwo Jima, although I didn't cry through the entire movie like I did with Flags. I thought one of the main points of the movie was that almost the entire officer corps acted like a bunch of "Himmelreiters", and like Himmelreiter were totally incompetent when it came to professional military knowledge.

And you had captains talking back to generals. In the US Army captains don't talk back to majors. In the Japanese Army it seemed that "bad stuff" happened when officers were around, but in the US Marines "bad stuff" only happened when officers were not around.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ryan deserves credits for having been the first to show the cruelty of the war and especially the beach landing with such uncompromising realism. Before, WWII movies always were "correct" and clinical, glossing over the grim reality (with the exception of "Steiner I -The Iron Cross", maybe). For many in the audience, Ryan's brutal pictures were a shock. I remember well the group of young adults sitting in front of me, two couples, with beers and popcorn, and joking and so on. After twenty minutes one women left, silently crying, her partner went after her and later came back alone. And after the show was over, their beers were half full, and the popcorn looked mostly untouched. A war movie that does not have a comparable effect, is making entertainment of war. Which is disgusting. The market is full of these. Shame.

It's funny how reactions are relative. One of the complaints about The Longest Day was the lack of blood; yet when I showed it to a young friend of mine, he watched the scene in which 'Pips' Priller strafes the beach. All you see is a whole bunch of guys falling down a long distance away, and yet my friend said "Man that's bloody!"

My big complaint about the Normandy sequence in Ryan was the mass of cliches: The guy is saved by his helmet, only to take it off then take one to the head again. The medics say "We can save this one", only to have him take on in the head. I wasn't disturbed or grossed out; I was laughing out loud, because I could see them coming a mile away. I didn't think the movie showed the horrors of war at all; I just thought it was silly.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It's funny how reactions are relative. One of the complaints about The Longest Day was the lack of blood; yet when I showed it to a young friend of mine, he watched the scene in which 'Pips' Priller strafes the beach. All you see is a whole bunch of guys falling down a long distance away, and yet my friend said "Man that's bloody!"

My big complaint about the Normandy sequence in Ryan was the mass of cliches: The guy is saved by his helmet, only to take it off then take one to the head again. The medics say "We can save this one", only to have him take on in the head. I wasn't disturbed or grossed out; I was laughing out loud, because I could see them coming a mile away. I didn't think the movie showed the horrors of war at all; I just thought it was silly.

Well, we disagree then, however, I found the sequence tough and realistic, and that is what veterans said about the opening, too, and others, Germans MG gunners, reported about their timing and plans to pepper landing crews once the front gates of the vessels opened. Turkey-shooting, they said. I cannot see that cliche you complain about, but since you talk about unrealisic coincidence and random chances: my grandfather was tank commander, Russian front The circumstance that as TC he was closest to the open turret hatch saved his life six times: he got six tanks shot and destroyed under his bottom, and survived, while loosing all crews. Later, in a very swampy region during a spring battle, a Russian tank he said rolled right over him, the tracks pushing him under water and into the soft ground. He had serious deformations of his spiral bones (? Rückgrat) and were not able to move his body for many days, but survived and becoming mobile again, althoug movement remained a pain for him for the rest of his life.

Laughing you did in that movie? Well, I had laughing not on my mind. Not for one second. Tja...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Heibges

Jarhead - amazingly almost the same story as Naked and the Dead. A long patrol which ends in a mission that is not completed. This memoir/movie shows really how far we have come since WWII. Instead of the Marines being racist and mysogenistic, they are only mysogenistic. You've come a long way baby.

I've seen Jarhead, witzh high expectations, for I red the book before. The book was disgustin due to the frank and open language, and this probably is what makes it so impressive, and honest. A good book, but due to the harsh language certainly not to be used in school classes: this is no high art of literature. The movie in no way does justice to the book, the characters are lifeless, the stories and incidents got massively glossed over, the details get mentioned but leave you uninterested, it all is very sterile, the sharp teeths got left out. I scored it as one of the worst war movies i know. Book: yes, movie: no.

Since you mentioned that Norman Mailer novel, you probably would like James Jones' novel which the movie of Thin Red Line is based upon. I find the movie more impressive, since it leads beyond the book, but for itself, the novel is outstanding. Maybe I would see it different if I had read the book before the movie, but so, the movie put a spell on me first.

novel:
http://www.amazon.com/Thin-Red-Line-...3330823&sr=8-2

movie:
http://www.amazon.com/Thin-Red-Line-...3331034&sr=8-1