Question about hydrophone stuff

wetwarev7 · 06-25-07, 10:24 AM

Why is it that subs cannot use the hydrophone while surfaced? :hmm:

Surface ships can. Why not subs? Is this just a function of SH4? I know in SH2, you could use the hydrophones while surfaced, but not in SH3 or SH4.

It looks like the hydrophones are mounted on the top and bottom of the sub, so I would assume that it could be used surfaced.

Does anyone know whether this is possible in real life, and if not, why not?

SteamWake · 06-25-07, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Why is it that subs cannot use the hydrophone while surfaced? :hmm:

Surface ships can. Why not subs? Is this just a function of SH4? I know in SH2, you could use the hydrophones while surfaced, but not in SH3 or SH4.

It looks like the hydrophones are mounted on the top and bottom of the sub, so I would assume that it could be used surfaced.

Does anyone know whether this is possible in real life, and if not, why not?

To put it in a nutshell ... noise. All the valid contacts get covered up by background noise.

The phones are mounted on the bottom of the sub (the little balls you see dangling from the bottom).

When the boat is surfaced and moving there is a lot of turbulance, wake, and bubbles along with waves splashing and fish farting.

But realistically we 'should' be able to use the hydrophones while surfaced but its not modeled that way.

That doesent bother me as much as picking up Sampans and rubber boats on passive sonar. Now that just doesent make sense.

Sailor Steve · 06-25-07, 10:32 AM

I'm sure that submarine hydrophones and active sonar work just fine on the surface, when the target is a submerged submarine. Surface ships' listening devices may work on the surface, but they don't pick up other surface ships.

wetwarev7 · 06-25-07, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

To put it in a nutshell ... noise. All the valid contacts get covered up by background noise.

The phones are mounted on the bottom of the sub (the little balls you see dangling from the bottom).

When the boat is surfaced and moving there is a lot of turbulance, wake, and bubbles along with waves splashing and fish farting.

But realistically we 'should' be able to use the hydrophones while surfaced but its not modeled that way.

That doesent bother me as much as picking up Sampans and rubber boats on passive sonar. Now that just doesent make sense.

Then how are surface ships able to hear anything through the hydrophones? Did it have anything to do with hull depth?

wetwarev7 · 06-25-07, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm sure that submarine hydrophones and active sonar work just fine on the surface, when the target is a submerged submarine. Surface ships' listening devices may work on the surface, but they don't pick up other surface ships.

Hrm...why is this? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand why sound from a surfaced ship would be harder to hear than a submerged sub. If anything, I would think it would be just the opposite.

I need details people! details! :rotfl:

SteamWake · 06-25-07, 10:49 AM

Look at it this way.

Ships are on top looking down. They cant hear to the sides. Ships could not hear submarines when they are surfaced. Indeed this was a big motivator for surface attack.

Subs are below looking up. Once they are on the surface well there is no more 'up'.

(Substitute the word listen for looking

Typhaon · 06-25-07, 10:54 AM

Well first of all, most destroyers have a higher draft than subs, so their hydrophones are deeper under water... and second: destroyers don't try to locate other surface vessels... for that you have to hear almost through the waves... the higher the waves, the worse the sonar for surface vessels... they use their hydrophones to track subs and their phones point downwards... so they are not disturbed by waves... but this is only when the sea is calm... in a heavy storm with high waves destroyers have problems with tracking subs... this is also featured in SHIV.

Sailor Steve · 06-25-07, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Then how are surface ships able to hear anything through the hydrophones? Did it have anything to do with hull depth?

The water around the hull of a moving ship is always disturbed. My bunk on the destroyer I served on was right at the waterline. At night I could hear the water rushing by right through the hull. The sonar and hydrophones are 'blinded' by that disturbance. They can only hear things below the disturbed area.

wetwarev7 · 06-25-07, 10:57 AM

It all makes sense now. Thanks guys!

switch.dota · 06-25-07, 11:18 AM

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

SteamWake · 06-25-07, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch.dota

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

I always thought that was the radar.

Bando · 06-25-07, 11:45 AM

I don't have radar installed, but the "T" is on my boat.
I don't know either.......

LukeFF · 06-25-07, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch.dota

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

I always thought that was the radar.

Nope, it's another listening device that was operated by a single user in the bow torpedo room.

wetwarev7 · 06-25-07, 12:04 PM

I think the radar antantea is mounted on top of the conning tower, isn't it?

SteamWake · 06-25-07, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch.dota

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

I always thought that was the radar.

Nope, it's another listening device that was operated by a single user in the bow torpedo room.

Well the silly thing continues to rotate even while surfaced (shrug).

06-25-07, 10:24 AM	#1
wetwarev7 Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Deep Waters Posts: 871 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Question about hydrophone stuff Why is it that subs cannot use the hydrophone while surfaced? :hmm: Surface ships can. Why not subs? Is this just a function of SH4? I know in SH2, you could use the hydrophones while surfaced, but not in SH3 or SH4. It looks like the hydrophones are mounted on the top and bottom of the sub, so I would assume that it could be used surfaced. Does anyone know whether this is possible in real life, and if not, why not? __________________ Guess I should change my sig since SH5 has an offline mode now

06-25-07, 10:32 AM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I'm sure that submarine hydrophones and active sonar work just fine on the surface, when the target is a submerged submarine. Surface ships' listening devices may work on the surface, but they don't pick up other surface ships. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

06-25-07, 10:57 AM	#9
wetwarev7 Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Deep Waters Posts: 871 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	It all makes sense now. Thanks guys! __________________ Guess I should change my sig since SH5 has an offline mode now

06-25-07, 12:04 PM	#14
wetwarev7 Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Deep Waters Posts: 871 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I think the radar antantea is mounted on top of the conning tower, isn't it? __________________ Guess I should change my sig since SH5 has an offline mode now

06-25-07, 10:49 AM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Look at it this way. Ships are on top looking down. They cant hear to the sides. Ships could not hear submarines when they are surfaced. Indeed this was a big motivator for surface attack. Subs are below looking up. Once they are on the surface well there is no more 'up'. (Substitute the word listen for looking

06-25-07, 10:54 AM	#7
Typhaon Sailor man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 47 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Well first of all, most destroyers have a higher draft than subs, so their hydrophones are deeper under water... and second: destroyers don't try to locate other surface vessels... for that you have to hear almost through the waves... the higher the waves, the worse the sonar for surface vessels... they use their hydrophones to track subs and their phones point downwards... so they are not disturbed by waves... but this is only when the sea is calm... in a heavy storm with high waves destroyers have problems with tracking subs... this is also featured in SHIV.

06-25-07, 11:18 AM	#10
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

06-25-07, 11:45 AM	#12
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	I don't have radar installed, but the "T" is on my boat. I don't know either.......