Convoys are too large

[daft]

Obviously not all merchants should be fitted out as make-shift escorts, only some. Just as they did during the war.

@Sailor Steve,

I would love to see the link.

[Von Tonner]

Here is a freighter and on the map update you can clearly see it has dc capabilities or at the very least sonar. It will also explain how destroyers can turn around or come from the other side of a convoy straight to you. And you go "... but how the s**t did he know where I was?". So sometimes it is not just a case at getting past the destroyer defence.

[tater]

The japanese put hydrophones on many merchants. My guess is that at some point a large % of IJN comandeered merchants got them. Many also got DCs by late in the war, but they were not really "escorts." They'd have a few ready DCs on deck, and if a ship was attacked, they'd dump a few over the side in an attempt to drive the sub down. Not aimed. Ship goes "boom" and merchants drop DCs whereever they happen to be.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by daft

@Sailor Steve,

I would love to see the link.

I've looked everywhere under every word combination I could think of. I have the thing in a folder on my computer; I just have to get a place to set it up.

Sorry.

[tater]

It's importnat to note that merchant shipping wasn't convoyed much until '44 at all. Before that, convoys were military shipping only. The IJN and IJA comandeered ~ 1/2 of japanese shipping between them. The IJN stuff would have been used to bring supplies to the IJN bases at the front. Truk, Palau, Tawi Tawi, Rabaul, Singapore, etc. Such shipping was convoyed and escorted. IJA shipping and plain old civilian merchant shipping was simply SOL until '44 (and after that sometimes as well).

[jmr]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

Wow how were you able to draw that first inner circle like that?

[Horst Mikaelis]

I started my first career in December '41. It's now November '42. Most of the ships I've encountered have been either lone or sets (2-3) of merchants without escorts. I even sank a lone troopship in the Marianas.

I think as lot has to do with where you're patrolling. Off the Japanese coast I did see mostly escorted convoys. But in the Carolines and Marianas the escorts are often non-existent.

Horst

[tater]

That's because there is almost no traffic at all in the Marshalls.

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by jmr

Wow how were you able to draw that first inner circle like that?

It was in game, I didn't do anything.

[daft]

Well, I've encountered manu unsecorted small convoys of up to three ships. I don't have any problem with that. I don't like the fact that escorted convoys are unrealistically large with up to three columns of ships. I'd like to see some smaller escorted convoys too.

[tater]

The funny thing is that the Marshalls is exactly where you'd actually see escorted convoys early in the war.

IJN traffic to Palau or Truk might be escorted. Traffic FROM Palau or Truk to downstream places on the front (New Guinea and the NEI, Rabaul, Kwajalein, etc) would almost certainly be escorted, and heavily too. The number of cargo ships would likely not be as many as we see in SH4 convoys, however, even if the escorts remained the same, lol.

This is because the IJN had a kind of "zone" defense in terms of ASW. Local port admirals were responsible for their area. In the case of points towards the front from Palau/Truk (early, later the Marianas and Tawi Tawi), the Combined Fleet would actually detach fleet units for escort.

The stock campaign is pretty poor from a historical standpoint, but it's easy to fix technically, just a lot of work.

[GerritJ9]

Even troop convoys were sometimes given ridiculously little protection- the convoy transporting the invasion force for the landing on East Java, for instance, consisting of some 40 transports, had only two destroyers as direct protection. Unfortunately, NO Dutch or US subs managed to get within striking distance- if they had, they would have had a field day.

[tater]

Gerrit, do you have an OOB for that force? I'm working on a new mission file to replace the entire Japanese southern advance (Malaya, NEI, Philipines, etc).

[GerritJ9]

I'll have to check my "archives" for the Java Sea battle for the Japanese destroyers, but the IJN side was well represented with heavy cruisers "Nachi" and "Haguro" and light cruisers "Jintsu" and "Naka". From memory the IJN had 14 destroyers, two of them were most definitely "Asagumo" and "Minegumo".
The ABDA force consisted of heavy cruisers USS "Houston" and HMS "Exeter", but the "Houston's" X turret was out of action, reducing her main battery by one third.
Light cruisers were Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter", Hr.Ms. "Java" and HMAS "Perth". Destroyers were HMS "Electra", HMS "Encounter", HMS "Jupiter", Hr.Ms "Kortenaer", Hr,Ms. "Witte de With", USS "Alden", USS "John D. Edwards", USS "John D. Ford" and USS "Paul Jones".

[FAdmiral]

Tater, I have paperback book titled "A Battle History of the Imperial Japanese
Navy"(1941-1945) by Paul S. Dull. It has alot of ship makeup in different
battles and conquests. The first one I see is one called Table of Organization
for the Invasion & Conquest of the Malay Peninsula. It gives the name of:

"Second Fleet, Southern Force, Malay Force"
Battleships: Haruna, Kongo
Hvy. Cruisers: Atago,Takako,Chokai,Mogami,Mikuma,Kumano,Suzuya
Light Cruisers: Sendai
*Destroyers:Fubuki,Hatsuyski,Shirayuki,Murakumo,Sh inonome,Shirakumo,Isonami,Uranami,
Shikinami,Ayanami,Amagiri,Asagiri,Yugiri,Sagiri

"Southern Expeditionary Fleet" (escort for Army Troopships)
Light Cruiser: Kashii
Destroyers: *from second fleet above when the need to transfer was great

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There are many more but the context is very large. I am gonna try to scan
the pages needed and create files. It will be much less time consuming....

JIM