USS Liberty

[ABBAFAN]

I recently watched a documentary on this ship which apparently was attacked by disguised israeli aircrat on the 8th june 1967 in order to bring America into the six day war against Egypt.The israelis claimed it was an accident but soome belive it was done deliberatly to make it look as though the Egyptians had attacked a US ship.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Not again.

PD

[bradclark1]

Last time I took part in a thread on this I got accused of being anti-semitic. You don't have enough options on your poll.
I think the Israeli's did it for some unknown reason or their pilots and gunboat commanders were stupider than the village idiot.

[Ishmael]

If it was done on purpose, it was probably within the context of maintaining secrecy of operations in the attack on Egypt. The Liberty was an intelligence ship like the Pueblo. In a way it reminds me of the old China gunboats, to weak to fight & to slow to run away.

[Jimbuna]

I read a lengthy piece on this about 20 years back in one of those weekly collectible war series 'War Machine'.
The bit that I always remember was at the end when the Israelis reckoned they first realised their mistake and radioed the captain of the Liberty asking him if they could give any assistance.
IIRC his response went something like "Go to h*ll you bas*ards"

[ABBAFAN]

This "war machine" was it on different subjects every issue and lots of line drawings of planes tanks ships etc and cvcame in a blue binder?
i have a book of magazines like rthis i got it in southampton in 1992 id love to get more copies of it.

[Yahoshua]

http://www.ujc.org/page.html?ArticleID=44455

http://hometown.aol.com/__121b_GFpm/...hU+aivllAwj8BU=

[The Avon Lady]

The Liberty Incident.

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I think the Israeli's did it for some unknown reason or their pilots and gunboat commanders were stupider than the village idiot.

Nothing stupid about it at all. Snippets from Mitchell Bard's Myths & Facts: the USS Liberty:

Also, contrary to claims that an Israeli pilot identified the ship as American on a radio tape, no one has ever produced this tape. In fact, the official Israeli Air Force tape clearly established that no such identification of the ship was made by the Israeli pilots prior to the attack. Tapes of the radio transmissions made prior, during and after the attack do not contain any statement suggesting the pilots saw a U.S. flag before the attack. During the attack, a pilot specifically says, “there is no flag on her!” The recordings also indicate that once the pilots became concerned about the identity of the ship, by virtue of reading its hull number, they terminated the attack and they were given an order to leave the area. A transcript of the radio transmissions indicates the entire incident, beginning with the spotting of a mysterious vessel off El Arish and ending with the chief air controller at general headquarters in Tel Aviv telling another controller the ship was “apparently American” took 24 minutes.5 Critics claimed the Israeli tape was doctored, but the National Security Agency of the United States released formerly top secret transcripts in July 2003 that confirmed the Israeli version.

..........

In October 2003, the first Israeli pilot to reach the ship broke his 36-year silence on the attack. Brig.-Gen. Yiftah Spector, a triple ace, who shot down 15 enemy aircraft and took part in the 1981 raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor, said he had been told an Egyptian ship was off the Gaza coast. "This ship positively did not have any symbol or flag that I could see. What I was concerned with was that it was not one of ours. I looked for the symbol of our navy, which was a large white cross on its deck. This was not there, so it wasn't one of ours." The Jerusalem Post obtained a recording of Spector's radio transmission in which he said, "I can't identify it, but in any case it's a military ship."

..........

Accidents caused by “friendly fire” are common in wartime. In 1988, the U.S. Navy mistakenly downed an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 civilians. During the Gulf War, 35 of the 148 Americans who died in battle were killed by “friendly fire.” In April 1994, two U.S. Black Hawk helicopters with large U.S. flags painted on each side were shot down by U.S. Air Force F-15s on a clear day in the “no fly” zone of Iraq, killing 26 people. In April 2002, an American F-16 dropped a bomb that killed four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. In fact, the day before the Liberty was attacked, Israeli pilots accidentally bombed one of their own armored columns.

[stabiz]

Not very strange that Israelis writes this up as an accident. Personally I lean towards stupidity and arrogance.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by stabiz

Not very strange that Israelis writes this up as an accident.

Brilliant logic of proof of guilt here.

Personally I lean towards stupidity and arrogance.

Look.

In.

Mirror.

[PeriscopeDepth]

While it would be really really hard to misidentify an 8,000 ton ship, it is possible. And there is just no reasoning behind an intentional attack that doesn't stink of wacky conspiracy theory and can be backed up by anything but the author of said wacky conspiracy theory...

By the way, I actually saw one of the flags from the USS Liberty at the National Cryptologic Museum. Pretty interesting museum if you get the chance to go.

PD

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

While it would be really really hard to misidentify an 8,000 ton ship, it is possible.

You're in a war where the existance of your country is at stake. You scramble. You're told its an enemy ship. You don't see a flag and you misread the marking. The ship is located exactly where reported and there's not another one in site.

For everyone else the "fog of war" is OK but it can't be here?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

You're in a war where the existance of your country is at stake. You scramble. You're told its an enemy ship. You don't see a flag and you misread the marking. The ship is located exactly where reported and there's not another one in site.

For everyone else the "fog of war" is OK but it can't be here?

I never ruled out fog of war, in fact I think that's the most likey explanation by a wide margin. Especially when fighter pilots are involved. But there are still aspects of the incident that bother me.

PD

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I never ruled out fog of war, in fact I think that's the most likey explanation by a wide margin.

I was elaborating your point, not questioning you.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I was elaborating your point, not questioning you.

Sorry, fog of war got me. Just assumed the Avon Lady was being argumentative.

PD