about the real fleet boat mod...

[Crawlerz]

u know i installed it just for kicks. and what...
the deck gun reload time is what threw me into involintary projectile vomiting almost immideately. wtf is up with that?
i mean all the other thing... for example: does it include the True Ship Dimention fix? i didnt catch that...
tchaaa, u know wha.. t? i think i'll go back to the original SH4 teaming with mods of different styles. probably better.

[tater]

What was wrong with the reload time? You do realize ammo had to be passed up to the gun, right?

The ROF is reasonably historical for a submarine deck gun, and because the SH4 deck gun is a gyrostabilized wonder like the gun on an Abrams tank, anythign to reduce the absurd effectiveness is a good thing, IMO.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Crawlerz

the deck gun reload time is what threw me into involintary projectile vomiting almost immideately. wtf is up with that?

:rotfl:

Nothing like kicking the door open and looking for a fight.

The deck gun rate-of-fire has been an argument ever since Beery's Real U-Boat mod two years ago. The problems are many, and the overall rate of fire is accurate, whether you puke on yourself or not.

Go to this thread, start with post #403 and prepare for a LOT of reading.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...111770&page=21

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Nothing like kicking the door open and looking for a fight.

In the wrong forum no less.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

:rotfl:

Nothing like kicking the door open and looking for a fight.

Exactly my thoughts, lol.
That was awesome...in a way. :rotfl:

[tater]

IMO too many people involved in simulations (programmers/game designers included) get overly attached to specific technical numbers, and not outcomes.

There is a camp of people in WW2OL, for example, who are not fond of a statistical approach to artillery fire. One of the active forum members actually models HE effects for the military. He simulates what they wish to see as his day job, and he can test his models with real guns. He uses a statistical approach. The gamers want to have every fragment tracked through the air—nevermind that the DM of the troops is so abysmal—you get the idea, missing the forest for the trees.

If the deck gun moved with the deck (like the TBT) so you had to pick when to fire on the roll and pitch, I'd be for an increase in ROF. But only a little faster unless the game could also adjust ROF for sea state. The skipper can fire the gun with the deck awash, and since the ammo was passed from below, every time the deck is awash the compartment below is getting seriusly drenched. In some of the seas I have used the deck gun messing around, there is no question that the boat should have been down at the stern after a few shots, even with all the pumps running just from the fact the hatch was underwater for so bloody long.

[shoot-kill-win]

Not trying to start an argument, but on some fleet boats wasn't the ammo stored in sealed containers on the outside of the bridge for the deck gun?

[tater]

Yeah, they kept some ready ammo there. But in game, it all gets reloaded at the same rate, plus you can fire in conditions where it would not have been done, plus the gun is gyro-stabilized, etc. The gun simulation isn't very complicated, so picking an average figure for ROF seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by shoot-kill-win

Not trying to start an argument, but on some fleet boats wasn't the ammo stored in sealed containers on the outside of the bridge for the deck gun?

Yes, but only 10 or so rounds could be stored. Since SH4 only has one variable for ROF, you can't model the first 10 rounds with quick reload times then the 30-60 seconds reload times as the next round has to be passed up the hatch from below.

As far as damage (another source of gripe for some people using RFB, and I'm sure the topic will come up), I think Beery is spot on as well. Using "Wahoo" by O'Kane as a reference, on one occasion they pumped 90 rounds into a small freighter before it sank. On another, they shot 80 rounds into another freighter after it took the initial torpedo hit. Morton didn't feel the freighter was worth another torpedo.

Blasting the crap out of a convoy with the deck gun or sinking a medium freighter with 7 rounds below the waterline never seemed very realistic to me.

[perisher]

I tried, very hard, to prove Beery wrong and failed. Initial high ROFs were achieved for only the first 3 or 4 minutes of a gun action and then they slowed down considerably. If any kind of sea is running the deck hatch cannot be used and the ammunition has to go up through the conning tower and down again. Even the Royal Navy, which was much more gun orientated with boats that were designed with gun actions in mind, having better ammunition supply and weather protection for the guns' crew, could only average 4 rounds per minute. (See Submarines at War by R. Compton-Hall)

[shoot-kill-win]

Sorry I wasnt talking about ROF I was talking about the water going down the hatch, Im fine with the rate of fire.

[tater]

No, shoot-kill-win, you were right, they did indeed carry some ready ammo, but as nightmare said, only a small number of rounds. So if they did a rushed battle surface, they could get a feew rounds out before the bucket brigade started delivering rounds topside.

The big isssue is the seas, otherwise the ammo needs to come out through the conning tower.

[shoot-kill-win]

Ok I wasnt sure how many rounds they carried in there.

[longam]

Someone tell these guys to quit shooting so fast.

[kv29]

even being an edited propaganda video, yes, those guy are FAST