Russia blames US in missile row - Page 2

PeriscopeDepth · 05-31-07, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Quote:

More or less. I would disagree that Putin is bent on dominating the former Soviet Republics though. I don't think it's domination so much as keeping NATO/the West out of his back yard.

PD

Im sure, that if they could, they would take them all back. He doesnt want them in the NATO because that makes it hard to invade them back at some point. This is not a joke, you just have to understand how they think. Its very 19th century, maps open in the Kremlin, they love their geopolitical theories that can get pretty wild..
I would bet everything i have on this being a 100% accurate image i painted..

I agree with you 100%. But Putin is smart enough to know domination can't be an option on the table for the foreseeable future. So he'll do what he can to counter western influence, including knocking off (or at least trying to) heads of state that may be receptive or even solicit Western overtures.

PD

ASWnut101 · 05-31-07, 08:57 PM

Here's the Global Security Article on the RS-24/SS-X-29

-->Link<--

Personally, I don't see how creating a ABM site in Poland and the Czech Radar is a "threat to Moscow." Of course, him being Putin in all, he's probably just using it as an excuse to continue Russia's Nuclear-Ballistic Missile program.

Time to re-activate the Peacekeeper, mabye?:hmm:

Happy Times · 05-31-07, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Quote:

More or less. I would disagree that Putin is bent on dominating the former Soviet Republics though. I don't think it's domination so much as keeping NATO/the West out of his back yard.

PD

Im sure, that if they could, they would take them all back. He doesnt want them in the NATO because that makes it hard to invade them back at some point. This is not a joke, you just have to understand how they think. Its very 19th century, maps open in the Kremlin, they love their geopolitical theories that can get pretty wild..
I would bet everything i have on this being a 100% accurate image i painted..

I agree with you 100%. But Putin is smart enough to know domination can't be an option on the table for the foreseeable future. So he'll do what he can to counter western influence, including knocking off (or at least trying to) heads of state that may be receptive or even solicit Western overtures.

PD

I agree with you 100%

PeriscopeDepth · 05-31-07, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Here's the Global Security Article on the RS-24/SS-X-29

-->Link<--

Personally, I don't see how creating a ABM site in Poland and the Czech Radar is a "threat to Moscow."

Read the thread.

Quote:

Of course, him being Putin in all, he's probably just using it as an excuse to continue Russia's Nuclear-Ballistic Missile program.

He doesn't need an excuse. The strategic rocket forces are not going to go away anytime soon.

PD

bradclark1 · 05-31-07, 09:03 PM

When you are trying to cold start a cold war you grasp at whatever excuse you can to ratchet things up a bit.

ASWnut101 · 05-31-07, 09:08 PM

[quote=ASWnut101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Here's the Global Security Article on the RS-24/SS-X-29

-->Link<--

Personally, I don't see how creating a ABM site in Poland and the Czech Radar is a "threat to Moscow."

Read the thread.

I did. I just made a statement on his statement. That is, unless he didn't make the statement, which means that there is no statement, which means...:hmm:

...I'm crazy.

Quote:

Of course, him being Putin in all, he's probably just using it as an excuse to continue Russia's Nuclear-Ballistic Missile program.

He doesn't need an excuse. The strategic rocket forces are not going to go away anytime soon.

PD

Never said that. I just said that (nearly like Subman's post) he's using it to improve his forces, breaking any treaties along the way.

Heibges · 05-31-07, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Are people seriously arguing this point? That is plain stupid. Russia can unleash 1000's of nukes on the US, and we can shoot down what? 6 of them? Get real people and get a life!

-S

PS. Putin is using this for propoganda - something that has an alterior motive. So what is that motive? An excuse for developing their latest missile? I bet it has something to do with that.

Bingo.

This BMD System sounds like a pork barrel project to me.

elite_hunter_sh3 · 05-31-07, 10:15 PM

i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far

..

ASWnut101 · 05-31-07, 10:24 PM

`Cause neither has the technology to do anything, yet.

Why put a huge amount of BMD equipment when you could just drop a penetrating GBU-28 on their "Launch Pad?" AEGIS DDGs and CGs are patrolling off Japan, and the new X-band radar installed south of Alaska gives us plenty of protection there.

Remember, the NK's couldn't even get thier Tapodong 30 seconds into flight. Their "nuclear test" was a failure (mostly; it did explode, but not with any truly damaging force, about 1/2 kiloton or less). Iran, to our knowledge, does not have nukes, either.

PeriscopeDepth · 05-31-07, 10:42 PM

[quote=ASWnut101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Here's the Global Security Article on the RS-24/SS-X-29

-->Link<--

Personally, I don't see how creating a ABM site in Poland and the Czech Radar is a "threat to Moscow."

Read the thread.

I did. I just made a statement on his statement. That is, unless he didn't make the statement, which means that there is no statement, which means...:hmm:

...I'm crazy.

Quote:

Of course, him being Putin in all, he's probably just using it as an excuse to continue Russia's Nuclear-Ballistic Missile program.

He doesn't need an excuse. The strategic rocket forces are not going to go away anytime soon.

PD

Never said that. I just said that (nearly like Subman's post) he's using it to improve his forces, breaking any treaties along the way.

My apologies, ASW. Guess I miss interpreted your post. Oh, and the part about statements makes me think my head's going to explode.

PD

PeriscopeDepth · 05-31-07, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far

..

Because US defence policy is NOT to counter the known threat. It is what's called "full spectrum dominance". This means, basically, US defense policy is to counter all /imaginable/ threats.

PD

CCIP · 05-31-07, 10:47 PM

"Putin using this for propaganda purposes" - yep, totally agreed. Any administration can take lessons on how to use anything for propaganda purposes from Putin. He is a consummate politicians and has gotten away with using far, far worse things for propaganda. Most propaganda for him has been internal.

I disagree with assessing him as a threat in some sort of Cold War sense. He's not a threat, not a partner, he's just a guy with a huge country and a heap of historical baggage. He and his people are much smarter than that. Russia has real power and strategic interests and has no less right to them than anyone else. As it stands, Russia is neither a democracy, nor a USSR, nor a Russian Empire, and they're certainly not threatening your countries or ways of life in ways that some, ahem, other elements today might be. I would rather the West recognized them and worked with them more pragmatically; frankly I don't think you'll be seeing Soviet tanks anywhere in Europe anytime soon, but European tanks might well be need to run on Russian-produced gas for the foreseeable future.

I think the West is in the causeless-revenge-mode (for what?) again. In that same mode, they blew the chance to help a real democracy get established in Russia; now it's too late. It's not too late not to antagonize the current state though and work with them on peaceful terms.

The Avon Lady · 05-31-07, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far

..

CCIP · 05-31-07, 11:00 PM

LOL

"ESTIMATED ranges of POTENTIAL missiles from a POTENTIAL source with a margin of error of 2250km"

Could you be any more certain?

cobalt · 05-31-07, 11:01 PM

bring back the CCCP!

05-31-07, 08:57 PM	#17
ASWnut101 Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,021 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Here's the Global Security Article on the RS-24/SS-X-29 -->Link<-- Personally, I don't see how creating a ABM site in Poland and the Czech Radar is a "threat to Moscow." Of course, him being Putin in all, he's probably just using it as an excuse to continue Russia's Nuclear-Ballistic Missile program. Time to re-activate the Peacekeeper, mabye?:hmm: __________________

05-31-07, 10:15 PM	#23
elite_hunter_sh3 The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,376 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far..

05-31-07, 10:24 PM	#24
ASWnut101 Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,021 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	`Cause neither has the technology to do anything, yet. Why put a huge amount of BMD equipment when you could just drop a penetrating GBU-28 on their "Launch Pad?" AEGIS DDGs and CGs are patrolling off Japan, and the new X-band radar installed south of Alaska gives us plenty of protection there. Remember, the NK's couldn't even get thier Tapodong 30 seconds into flight. Their "nuclear test" was a failure (mostly; it did explode, but not with any truly damaging force, about 1/2 kiloton or less). Iran, to our knowledge, does not have nukes, either. __________________

05-31-07, 10:47 PM	#27
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	"Putin using this for propaganda purposes" - yep, totally agreed. Any administration can take lessons on how to use anything for propaganda purposes from Putin. He is a consummate politicians and has gotten away with using far, far worse things for propaganda. Most propaganda for him has been internal. I disagree with assessing him as a threat in some sort of Cold War sense. He's not a threat, not a partner, he's just a guy with a huge country and a heap of historical baggage. He and his people are much smarter than that. Russia has real power and strategic interests and has no less right to them than anyone else. As it stands, Russia is neither a democracy, nor a USSR, nor a Russian Empire, and they're certainly not threatening your countries or ways of life in ways that some, ahem, other elements today might be. I would rather the West recognized them and worked with them more pragmatically; frankly I don't think you'll be seeing Soviet tanks anywhere in Europe anytime soon, but European tanks might well be need to run on Russian-produced gas for the foreseeable future. I think the West is in the causeless-revenge-mode (for what?) again. In that same mode, they blew the chance to help a real democracy get established in Russia; now it's too late. It's not too late not to antagonize the current state though and work with them on peaceful terms. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) Last edited by CCIP; 05-31-07 at 10:59 PM.

05-31-07, 11:00 PM	#29
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	LOL "ESTIMATED ranges of POTENTIAL missiles from a POTENTIAL source with a margin of error of 2250km" Could you be any more certain? __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

05-31-07, 09:03 PM	#20
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	When you are trying to cold start a cold war you grasp at whatever excuse you can to ratchet things up a bit.

05-31-07, 11:01 PM	#30
cobalt Commander Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 440 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	bring back the CCCP! __________________ download my playable viic/41 submarine http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107315 http://files.filefront.com/CobaltsVI.../fileinfo.html