Why Didnt They Use The Ai From SH III!

Quagmire · 05-22-07, 11:33 AM

Am I missing something here???

Why not just use the AI from SHIII in SHIV? Convoys didn't shut down their engines when one ship was attacked in SHIII.

Is it painfully simple to just keep the same AI model or am I in some "total reality inversion vortex" or something???

ARGH!

orangenee · 05-22-07, 11:35 AM

Yeah and don't think Japanese DDs rotated on the spot either.

U-Bones · 05-22-07, 11:39 AM

I imagine the intent was to improve, and time was not managed well enough to complete to satisfaction. There are other changes that were not completed as well. Only 98% of sub settings in zones.cfg were moved to UPC files for example.

IMO the AI issue is the #1 thing that MUST be fixed before SH4 is abandoned.

05-22-07, 11:42 AM

Quote:

IMO the AI issue is the #1 thing that MUST be fixed before SH4 is abandoned.

I so agree with this statement...its my number one gripe

AVGWarhawk · 05-22-07, 11:56 AM

Seems to be some conversation concerning this. Some feel the merchants are stopping so the destroyers can listen with the sonar equipment. I'll buy that to a certain extent. They really need to start zig-zagging afterwards. But the really do not do much of that. In SH3 it was almost predictable down to the letter (IMHO). It got quite easy to make set up and firing solutions. Furthermore there is a mixed bag of DD and response. Some are just very dumb and others will work you over keeping you down. I had this last night, 4 DD escorting a large European passenger ship. These guys ment business and they gave me the business also. I do like the fact that the merchants speed up and slow down frequently, it makes getting a good solution difficult and a bit more challenging.

btaft · 05-22-07, 12:19 PM

Last night I had a pair of merchants bow to stern (no escorts) coming at me last night. I put one fish into the first one and sent it down. The second one looked to be starting to zig zag but instead pulled a 90 deg to course and stopped. I decided to surface to and deck gun it to see if I could scare it away.....nope just stayed there. Eventually I just got a solution for the merchant and put a couple of fish into it. I don't know if it was stopping to pick up survivors? I have had some DDs that have been a challenge though

U-Bones · 05-22-07, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaft

Last night I had a pair of merchants bow to stern (no escorts) coming at me last night. I put one fish into the first one and sent it down. The second one looked to be starting to zig zag but instead pulled a 90 deg to course and stopped. I decided to surface to and deck gun it to see if I could scare it away.....nope just stayed there. Eventually I just got a solution for the merchant and put a couple of fish into it. I don't know if it was stopping to pick up survivors? I have had some DDs that have been a challenge though

Yeah, I think that *some/most* of the DD issues can be solved with higher level Crew settings. Actually it is pretty easy to mod the game to a hateful extreme with the DD's. A lot of what passes for "AI" issues is actually blind/deaf issues.

Keelbuster · 05-22-07, 01:59 PM

I remember the anticipation for SH4 before it was released. One thought that kept bouncing around was - Jap ASW was a joke in RL, so what kind of challenge can we expect from the game?

jhelix70 · 05-22-07, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Some feel the merchants are stopping so the destroyers can listen with the sonar equipment.

I don't buy it. The destroyers shouldnt be listening, they should be pinging like crazy!! Otherwise, you could just shut everything down, stay quiet, and wait them out.

The convoy should (in general) turn away from the direction of the attack, and the escorts should direct their active sonar toward the presumed area the torps were launched from (and sometimes actually beeline directly toward the area, following torp tracks if they are steam).

Eventually the convoy would resume its base course, but increase the frequency of zig zagging.

RocketDog · 05-22-07, 02:55 PM

I asked the dev who posts here under the name of Elanaibia (sp?) about this. He said the convoys slowing down is an unintended bug.

Cheers,

RD.

AVGWarhawk · 05-22-07, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keelbuster

I remember the anticipation for SH4 before it was released. One thought that kept bouncing around was - Jap ASW was a joke in RL, so what kind of challenge can we expect from the game?

For me it is the great DD and the dumb DD mix. Once I sunk every vessel in a convoy that had three dumb DD. I sunk the DD with my cannons! Then there are the taskforces that have great DD and dumb DD. The great DD sometimes hit you with precision DC. I had this last night. Four DD that detected me while submerged at about 2000 yards. I was at flank speed as I need to close the distance on the rear European passenger ship. These 4 DD were on me like stink on poop. Needless to say I went deep and they kept me there. The challenge is the mixed bag of DD and also the mixed bag of merchants that have cannons. I surfaced on two merchants with cannons, the darn buggers ripped me a new one. The other challenge and some find it as dumb, the slowing or stopping convoy. I have set up and sent my torps for Xkts and the darn merchants are alerted, slowing down. Now my torps solution is screwed. This in itself can make it very difficult and challenging. My favorite and it caught me completely unaware, merchants that will turn on you and chase you. Man, first time this happened to me I was so close I could not turn and run, I was in full reverse with a merchant slowly catching me. Fortunate I had set up my sub with the cannon on the bow. Even so, the bugger scrapped down the side of my sub. I was really surprised this merchant was aggressive. Again, you never know what you will get with every encounter.

AVGWarhawk · 05-22-07, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketDog

I asked the dev who posts here under the name of Elanaibia (sp?) about this. He said the convoys slowing down is an unintended bug.

Cheers,

RD.

Finally, a bug I like!

tater · 05-22-07, 03:45 PM

It's not a bug I like, while the escorts drive you down, the convoy could get away. The escorts stopping to listen is fine, and would work regardless of what the convoy does.

Also, the IJN used active pinging a lot. To their detriment, even, since escorts would frequently lead the convoy pinging the whole way, and US subs would hear the pinging and head the right way without even having to see smoke or masts.

Quagmire · 05-22-07, 04:06 PM

Yeah, no kidding. Constant pinging is wasn't in SHIII either. In both SH III and SH IV if you hear pinging they have found you. If not then you are still concealed.

Redwine · 05-22-07, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhelix70

The convoy should (in general) turn away from the direction of the attack, and the escorts should direct their active sonar toward the presumed area the torps were launched from (and sometimes actually beeline directly toward the area, following torp tracks if they are steam).

Eventually the convoy would resume its base course, but increase the frequency of zig zagging.

If i not remeber bad... that was in SH 1 !!!

To be sincere... i never seen that described here, the convoys stops... when i attack, they always still sailing and after a torp impact they start evasive maneuvers.

May be the non agresive DDs are consecuence of some parameters as waves, background noise factors.
Plus may be sensivity was not enough.

May be the developers made that due to the conflictive "Uber DDs/DEs" behaviour into SH III.

Into SH IV, you are well protected when at silent running, wich was real, plus when at peri depth, wich was real too, plus under the thermal layer, wich was real too...

Finally we have a more easy life here...

May be we need to tweak the sensivity of the sensors...

05-22-07, 11:56 AM	#5
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Seems to be some conversation concerning this. Some feel the merchants are stopping so the destroyers can listen with the sonar equipment. I'll buy that to a certain extent. They really need to start zig-zagging afterwards. But the really do not do much of that. In SH3 it was almost predictable down to the letter (IMHO). It got quite easy to make set up and firing solutions. Furthermore there is a mixed bag of DD and response. Some are just very dumb and others will work you over keeping you down. I had this last night, 4 DD escorting a large European passenger ship. These guys ment business and they gave me the business also. I do like the fact that the merchants speed up and slow down frequently, it makes getting a good solution difficult and a bit more challenging. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

05-22-07, 01:59 PM	#8
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I remember the anticipation for SH4 before it was released. One thought that kept bouncing around was - Jap ASW was a joke in RL, so what kind of challenge can we expect from the game? __________________

05-22-07, 02:55 PM	#10
RocketDog Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 55 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	I asked the dev who posts here under the name of Elanaibia (sp?) about this. He said the convoys slowing down is an unintended bug. Cheers, RD. __________________

05-22-07, 04:06 PM	#14
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Yeah, no kidding. Constant pinging is wasn't in SHIII either. In both SH III and SH IV if you hear pinging they have found you. If not then you are still concealed. __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

05-22-07, 11:33 AM	#1
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Why Didnt They Use The Ai From SH III! Am I missing something here??? Why not just use the AI from SHIII in SHIV? Convoys didn't shut down their engines when one ship was attacked in SHIII. Is it painfully simple to just keep the same AI model or am I in some "total reality inversion vortex" or something??? ARGH! __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

05-22-07, 11:35 AM	#2
orangenee Engineer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 211 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yeah and don't think Japanese DDs rotated on the spot either.

05-22-07, 11:39 AM	#3
U-Bones Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Treading Water Posts: 847 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	I imagine the intent was to improve, and time was not managed well enough to complete to satisfaction. There are other changes that were not completed as well. Only 98% of sub settings in zones.cfg were moved to UPC files for example. IMO the AI issue is the #1 thing that MUST be fixed before SH4 is abandoned.

05-22-07, 12:19 PM	#6
btaft Soundman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 147 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Last night I had a pair of merchants bow to stern (no escorts) coming at me last night. I put one fish into the first one and sent it down. The second one looked to be starting to zig zag but instead pulled a 90 deg to course and stopped. I decided to surface to and deck gun it to see if I could scare it away.....nope just stayed there. Eventually I just got a solution for the merchant and put a couple of fish into it. I don't know if it was stopping to pick up survivors? I have had some DDs that have been a challenge though

05-22-07, 03:45 PM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's not a bug I like, while the escorts drive you down, the convoy could get away. The escorts stopping to listen is fine, and would work regardless of what the convoy does. Also, the IJN used active pinging a lot. To their detriment, even, since escorts would frequently lead the convoy pinging the whole way, and US subs would hear the pinging and head the right way without even having to see smoke or masts.