[TEC] Tweak destroyers reactions to convoy attacks

[kakemann]

I wonder if it is possible to tweak the destroyers reactions when their convoy is attacked.

If I remember correct, when playing SH3 with GWX the escorts guarding the attacked convoy would react according to where the first ship is hit.

What I mean is that, if a ship is hit on starboard side by a torpedo, the destroyers escoring the convoy would go fast in the direction they "believe" the torpedo where coming from in other words, starboard.

If some experienced modders from SH3 would be kind to share their knowledge about this, I would be grateful!

Could it be that it is hardcoded?

[Ducimus]

As far as the AI goes, the only thing were able to mod, is its sensors. In otherwords,
detection. With the exception of crewrating, everything else as the AI goes is hardcoded.

[kakemann]

Hmmm!

I see! Thanks for sharing your knowledge Ducimus.

[jhelix70]

That is sad news, the AI behavior is getting frustrating.

The escorts don't seem to notice the bubble tracks left by the steam torpedoes. In daytime, it should lead them right to where the sub was when they were fired (this one on of the big advantages of electrics, no?). At least it did in SH1. Looks like they managed to uninvent the wheel.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

As far as the AI goes, the only thing were able to mod, is its sensors. In otherwords,
detection. With the exception of crewrating, everything else as the AI goes is hardcoded.

Yeah, this is pretty bad stuff indeed. In fact, I get the impression one of the biggest issues with the AI really is the idiotic convoy behaviour with the merchants coming to a stop (or 0.5 knots speed) as soon as one of their buddy gets blown out the water. If that wasn't so frustrating, it would actually be hilarious:

Some 300 miles off the coast of Honshu

Adaki Shidoku, the navigator, is still all over the map when Captain Jingto Raisen returns to the bridge. The Japanese Army Air Force has recently submitted a storm warning to all vessels in the area. A taifun no 50 miles from the current position of Captain Raisen's convoy, and directly enroute. A course change will be necessary, and recalculation of time of arrival. There are strong currents in the area, and a few ships in the convoy are low on fuel, since they had already been underway from Tokyo when they joined Raisen's little endevaour, which doesn't exactly help either.
The navigator turns around: "Captain, the new plot is ready. We need to..." Both Shidoku and the Captain leap around reflexively and look outside the window, eyes squinting, where it seems the sun has suddenly risen early into the darkness of the Pacific night. "WRRRAAAAMMMMM!" The enourmous explosion sound follows, and Captain Raisen could swear he felt his own ship tremble with it. The ship that did not tremble, but downright evaporate into an incinerating holocaust, was the 20,000 ton tanker only 2000 yards off their starboard side.

In an instant, Raisen realizes what is going on. It haunted him ever since the 12th of April, when their destroyer escort detected and charged a submerged submarine which was trying to infiltrate the convoy. It seemed like they did so with some success, as the submarine seemingly disappeared, but no confirmation of a kill either. Today is April 16, 00:23, and Raisen's worst nightmares have just become true a few seconds ago.
"ALAAAAAAARM! Convoy under torpedo attack, rigg ship for impact! Come to a FULL STOP! Signal Officer! Get out NOW, signal "ALL STOP!" to the convoy immediately. Let this guy have at us! We are going to remain in this position until those detestable Yanks have taken out at least two more ships, and until we are hit as well. Let's show them. Form a blockade with the outer ships so that our escorts will stay outside at least half a mile and will not be able to charge the sub. Let's get sunk by those bastards, GO GO GO!"

...

Originally Posted by jhelix70

The escorts don't seem to notice the bubble tracks left by the steam torpedoes. In daytime, it should lead them right to where the sub was when they were fired (this one on of the big advantages of electrics, no?). At least it did in SH1.

True. I will never understand how good things in prequels will just disappear in the sequels. I know, different dev team, but still - couldn't they just have taken out the SHI AI routines and reasemble them into SHIV in one way or another? SHI AI was excellent. Also, the merchants would speed up to max and accelerate directly away from where your sub was supposed to be, or they would sometimes scatter in all different directions. You had one hell of a time to re-attack once your first fish had hit their targets - even without escorts.

[jhelix70]

The really sad part is we may not be able to mod it!!!

Although considering what GWX did for SH3 maybe theres hope...

[Ducimus]

What GWX did to the AI, is along a similar theme with what ive done with it in SH4, although GWX's visual sensor implementation is different, primarly to accomidate long range gunnery from capital warships.

With the exception of adding more visual nodes to the dat file like NYGM did, theres really only so much you can do with the sensors. All it really boils down to is when did you want the AI to detect the player, under what conditions, and how long do you want the encounter to last.

Some aspects of the AI in SH4 are different then SH3. Its these differences that are the issue. (IE merchants stopping when another ship gets torpedoed, convoys slowing down to the speed of the slowest ship, etc) Nothing we can do about that.

[Hartmann]

Yes very sad this poor behaviour of ia.

in sh1 scorts and ships react inmediately running away at full speed at the first submarine sighting or explossions.

i hope that it will be modded or improved.

[jhelix70]

Some aspects of the AI in SH4 are different then SH3. Its these differences that are the issue. (IE merchants stopping when another ship gets torpedoed, convoys slowing down to the speed of the slowest ship, etc)

Yes, indeed, those are the most frustrating.

[DiveMonkey]

It's also a lack of coordination of DD, having 6 or 8 of em come after you they don't work well together.

no real search pattern, they just seem to all come running.
Even almost into each other

SHIII had this problem I think but was fixed in a patch.
Now they make cordanated searches for you.

Lets hope 1.3 is in the works and will be out soon.

[FAdmiral]

Merchant reaction isn't just in convoys when a ship is hit. I tested this
in approaching a single merchant on the surface. His course and speed
are relatively constant until he sees you. Then he starts to turn away but
also slows down? My latest contact was 9 kts. down to 2 kts. I believe
the code of the speed action is backwards, in other words, the devs
wrote it 180 degrees out, slowing the ship instead of speeding it out.
Hopefully if they know about it (should with all the posts here about it)
it should be fixed...

JIM

[FAdmiral]

The 2 merchants in question in the above post were spawned from the
randon layer. Merchants I have created in a mission react the same way...

JIM

[jhelix70]

The merchants also behave poorly when you open fire on them with the deck gun.

As far as the AI escorts, after playing some the last two days with enhanced AI sensors, the problem appears to be that the escorts just aren't pinging me. They seem to wait for hydrophone contact first before going with active sonar. They really should alternate between the two, instead of relying on one before the other.

They also seem relatively blind in terms of seeing torpedo tracks and responding appropriately.

lol at ship AI in SH4.
I aproached a convoy surfaced. Four destroyer escorts didn't do anything. I destroyed all ships with my guns:

[Payoff]

Were'nt IJN escorts known for pinging all the time when they knew a sub was in the area? I was surprised to hear such little pinging when I got SHIV. :hmm: