Something is definatly up with the planes

[Ducimus]

With these settings:

[Visual]
Detection time=0.5					;[s]	min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.01						;(0..1)	at (sensitivity * max range) we have a double detection time.
Fog factor=1.0						;[>=0]
Light factor=2.0						;[>=0]
Waves factor=0.75						;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=100				;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=8					;[kt]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.0

There is aboslutely no way this should be happening: (time of day is high noon, so no greylight conditions)


Somethings wrong here. Seriously, what does one have to do? drop fog factor to 0.5 and the surface factor to 35?

Said plane eventualy did spot me, but only AFTER he passed me. I noticed something weird with planes detecting me starting after patch 1.2. Anyone else notice this?

[loreed]

I am starting a new partol and will see if the problem exist or if I am still the aircraft magnet I was in SH3. I had been regularly attacked and sunk in SH4 1.2 when I first installed it. I added your 1.1 radar fix and have been able to avoid being sunk by every aircraft that my watch standers spotted. I will stay up this time and see what happens.

[Kant Schwimm]

How far do you think you can see in light fog:hmm: I see from your nav map your boat is about 2mls/3kms from the target.
Just tried wiki for fog ranges but got nothing really, got me curious now...
Not a flame or anything ..I use flavoured for taste..great job .. just curious.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Kant Schwimm

How far do you think you can see in light fog:hmm: I see from your nav map your boat is about 2mls/3kms from the target.
Just tried wiki for fog ranges but got nothing really, got me curious now...
Not a flame or anything ..I use flavoured for taste..great job .. just curious.

This isnt a problem with my mod. Of that im certain. In light fog, that plane should have spotted me alot farther then 3KM.

The only thing i can think of, is that maybe somehow, internally to the game, the scale at which enviormental varaibles effect visual detection has changed. But that seems like a bit of a stretch, but i suppose its possible. But if the scale at which enviormental variables was changed from how it was in SH3, then you'd think the developers would have altered the enviormental variables in the sim.cfg accordingly.

(what i mean by scale is in SH3 1.0 produced X amount of blindness. But1 .0 now produces Y amount of blindess, but we want the X value, then it stands to reason we have to reduce the enviormental variable to achieve the X value )

Of course to prove or disprove, this, all one has to do, is look how good visual detection is with destroyers and such. I

*sigh*

Looks like i have some more testing to do when i get home tonight.

[Kant Schwimm]

In light fog, that plane should have spotted me alot farther then 3KM.



Still not convinced on the fog range:hmm: ...will prolly end up phoning a harbour master somwhere before the nights out
Anyone at subsim know about fog ranges?

[tycho102]

I don't know what all mods you're running. When I get planes, they are ALWAYS headed straight for my boat. Every single time. I always order crash dives and in about 50% of the cases, I don't even get a bombing run.

[jmjohnson36]

OK I fly older style planes...and with light fog and considering speed of a boat visibility range would be roughly 2 NM...I once was on a mission looking for a person who fell off a rig....IN good conditions...and with modern equipment it took us 3 hours...now I know a Sub is much bigger...however it is very very hard to see something that size in anything less than perfect conditions...especially with OLD planes of WW2... from what I know and remember

poor conditions=rain/snow/fog VR would be <1 NM
good conditions=overcast etc etc VR would be 1 to 5NM
great conditions=perfect weather and seas flat VR easy 10NM
anything over 10 NM then you need some visual aid...

this is just my humble opinion...

There is aboslutely no way this should be happening: (time of day is high noon, so no greylight conditions)


Somethings wrong here. Seriously, what does one have to do? drop fog factor to 0.5 and the surface factor to 35?

Said plane eventualy did spot me, but only AFTER he passed me. I noticed something weird with planes detecting me starting after patch 1.2. Anyone else notice this?[/quote]

[shad43]

I changed the visual sensitivity value in sim.cfg from 0.01 to 0.03 and started a new patrol so far I've met up with one plane and he definitly saw me...will see what developes with this...we know that upping the sensitivity for the sonor and hydrphones works wonders so perhaps this will do the same.
In my mind altering things like the suface factor is only going to make it so the enemy can spot me when I present a smaller target, thats fine but still won't matter if the sensitivity is to low, same goes for the fog factor.

[ATR-42]

id have to agree with jmj... initially i thought becasue of the fog he may not see the sub but after thinking about it, (im sure the devs didnt think this far into it but...)

with the sub being IN the fog, and the plane flying over the layer id think the plane would definitly be able to make out a surfaced boat.

because it IS like flying. the sub sitting in the soup may only be able to see a short distance in the fog, but the view of the fog from well above wont look like much at all from the plane because its being viewed at such an angle the visibility through the fog (from a plane) is such that you can see practically right through it, thus seeing the sub.

a layer of fog from aloft to a pilot wont look like much at all, but when you descend into that same layer and look through it at a 'longer angle' the visibility can get so low it could inhibit landing completely.

last thing to consider, it the games credit is that most of the aircraft nagging us are low wing planes thus making tons of blind spots for the pilots to look out. again, i dont think the computer cares about that really either.

and i run reduced a/c attack mod, the few planes that do come nag me, head straight for the boat, no questions asked

[loreed]

Just ran a test and the reason I am being attacked may be the mod I am using; "ParaB's tweaked airstrikes" I put it in to reduce the number of aircraft zipping around but the mod also says it increases the effectivness of the aircrews during daylight. WHen the mod is removed, the betty's just fly on by.

SOunds like you guys are right, there is something amiss with the game Air configuration file.

[shad43]

Originally Posted by loreed

Just ran a test and the reason I am being attacked may be the mod I am using; "ParaB's tweaked airstrikes" I put it in to reduce the number of aircraft zipping around but the mod also says it increases the effectivness of the aircrews during daylight. WHen the mod is removed, the betty's just fly on by.

SOunds like you guys are right, there is something amiss with the game Air configuration file.

Im wondering if I haven't tweaked my airstrike.cfg too much, changed default prob of an airstrike from 10 to 5 and approaching Honshu I've had 1 plane contact...now this is better than having planes show up every 15 minutes but seems like there should be more than one contact so close to Honshu.

[Ducimus]

RE: airstrike.cfg
primarly deals with frequency of air attacks. It doesnt effect visual detection.

RE :light fog
Light fog in game, doesnt even look like light fog. It says light fog, but you dont really see that much of it. The visual acquity in game does not correlate to the reported weather. Light fog, never did look like light fog even in sh3. Except maybe as a light haze on the horizon.

RE: sensitivity:
Personally i feel You really need to be careful with that because you stand the chance of making things too uber. Ive always felt theres a balance that needs to be achieved. So that enviormental variables keep things more dynamic. I might get more into this later, its late and im going to bed.

[Ducimus]

After some more testing, sensitivty in the cfg file is part of the problem, but not the entire problem.

Ive been running submerged tests to gauge periscope detection. Sad to say, the AI does not see periscopes. Not on stock visual settings, and not on the visual settings ive been using in my mod.

Right now im trying to get a feel for when the AI sees periscopes. About the only time the buggers do see it, is when my bow collides against the side of the test ship (a heavy crusier at crew rating 3), and i raise my depth out of the water a couple more meters.


One problem im going to encounter is while i could eventually tune the AI to detect periscopes at say 500 to 1000 meters if you leave it up too long, it stands the distinct chance of making the AI visuals too uber when your acutally on the surface. If that would be the case the enviormental dampeners would have to be exaggerated to keep the AI visuals from being too uber, and all a bit more varience in detection rather then a static, predictable visual detection pattern.

As it is, the fact that the AI can't see your perscope unless your practically right under them, is totally BS. What does this have to do with plane detecting you? If the game cannot even spot your periscope at close range under normal play conditions, then theres something fundamentally wrong with the entire visual schema.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Just wanted to poke my head here and say thanks for your efforts here to make this a better game lads. It is appreciated. Keep it up

RDP

[Laffertytig]

whenever i check out threads like these i still get amazed at how much they screwed up this game/sim. a subsim that where the AI cant detect periscopes hmm.