Help! Destroyers in GWX are no challenge.

[Henri II]

Recently there was a thread about destroyers being too deadly in GWX, this may now sound strange, but I have exactly the opposite problem, they are not even a challenge.
In a recent patrol during the invasion of Norway I attacked a troop transport convoy, after the attack a Tribal class DD tried but couldn't sink or even really scare me, even though I couldn't go deeper than 15 (fifteen) m due to the shallow water there. Some time ago I had a simmilar experience in the Channell where half a task force was unable to do anything to even damage my boat in about 50 m of water. This seems rather strange, considering that usually the advice is given not to attack if the depth is less than 100 m.

Just now a simmilar thing happened, in November 1939 somewere north of Scottland with perfect weather I sighted a DD, changed course to run away from him, but was spotted by a plane after some time, dived to PD. The destroyer was still in hydrophone range and turned towards me alerted by the planes. I save just before that, so I decided to try and see how deadly he really was and continued to run at 1/3 at PD. He went right for me and dropped some DDs which caused heavy damage and heavy flooding. I sank to the bottom (80 m). I tried to rise but the electrics were damaged, blew balast twice and rose right to the surface about 100 m from the destroyer and crash dived back again. Flooding and damage were finally under controll and I went to 70 m at 1/3 ahead, still doing minor repairs. The DD made several runs at me which rocked the boat, but only one resulted in any damage. After about six or seven atacks I went to silent running, at which point he lost me completely and went bombing the see somewhere in the disatance.

Just about every encounter with escorts is like that for me, once I switch on silent running I can sit back and relax, now matter how deep or shallow I am, even without silent running I never am in any real danger. I know in 1939 the escort crews were rahter bad, but I had simmilar experiences up to 1941, and in my example above I did just about everything to make it easy for him.

Now I'm not sure how this just sonded, but it is not intended to be a critique, just an illustration of my problem. So, I have two questions:

1. What could be the reason for my experience being so totaly different from all those people who apparently are routinely sunk by escorts while trying everything to escape? Am I the only one?

2. Is there a more or less simple way to increase the lethality of escorts in GWX 1.03?

[Hellraiser]

I think what you describe has to do with the time of war.

Sounds like 1939-40. The escorts are not very good at all...as they historically weren't during the early war years.

Now try that same thing from mid-1942 on and you will not last long. The escorts improve dramatically from 42-45 ....like they historically did. GWX does an excellent job of modeling the constant improvement in escort capability.

In some ways, having it easy in the early war years will get you killed quickly later on because you develop BAD habits and underestimating them later will surely cost you your crew & boat.

I really believe this is what happened to the real life Kretschmer, Schepke & Prien among others...they got complacent.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Hellraiser

I think what you describe has to do with the time of war.

Sounds like 1939-40. The escorts are not very good at all...as they historically weren't during the early war years.

Now try that same thing from mid-1942 on and you will not last long. The escorts improve dramatically from 42-45 ....like they historically did. GWX does an excellent job of modeling the constant improvement in escort capability.

In some ways, having it easy in the early war years will get you killed quickly later on because you develop BAD habits and underestimating them later will surely cost you your crew & boat.

I really believe this is what happened to the real life Kretschmer, Schepke & Prien among others...they got complacent.

hell raiser is right... just load up a test campaign in mid 1943 and do all of the things you just mentioned to a convoy with heavy escorts, your boat and crew will be completely lost in the first few minutes of attack.

In later war years i have had escorts accurately ASDIC my position down to 180 meters of water at 1 knot and silent running which forced me to 220 meters... i hoped they would lose me as i didnt want to go any deeper... i got away with light damage. but in about 1943 onwards they will hound you to death.

dont forget that the times you are playing in right now were called "the happy times" for a reason- U-boat commanders could get away with just about anything.

just wait until you run up against a carrier task force out at open sea... the planes keeping you submerged by constant harrasment... you cant recharge your batteries or oxygen, all the while the DDs are creeping toward your position. you can die by lack of oxygen or depth charges or by gunfire on the surface. A U-boat especially in 44 and 45 is up against a wall.

[STEED]

Try 1943 on wards if you want a challenge, those Destroyers will here your crew fart 10 miles away.

[joea]

Someone bookmark this thread...it's a first! For the record, I find early war escorts much easier too, as they should be.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by joea

Someone bookmark this thread...it's a first! For the record, I find early war escorts much easier too, as they should be.

Bingo.

For a true test anyone that thinks they are too easy should load a career in 44. Go out and just try and see how long you can stay surfaced. Whether you dive by choice or not you're going under the waves.

[Henri II]

Hmmm, just so that I see this clear, this kind of behaviour is normal for the early years? What about all those players who are reportedly getting sunk even on their first patrols, they all start in 1944? Is there anyone who has been killed much in 1939-40?

[KeptinCranky]

Yes,

I do get killed in 1940 (not in 39 though) usually by overconfidence, but at least once where 3 escorts teamed up on me and did the whole 1 pings, 1 drop DCs and the other circles your position just to distract you and they keep switching roles, then when they have you located they'll just pound you and pound you until you either implode or are forced to surface with heavy damage, then they either ram you or blast you with their guns....

Beware the Black Swans !!!

[Castout]

Here you may want to try this mod to upscale the escort difficulty:
http://www.ebort2.co.uk/

i believe it can be used with GWX it just changes some AI sensor files.
btw it's not JSGME ready so if you want to use JSGME you need to create thye appropiate folders yourself. I found the DDs aren't that easy(and not way too hard) anymore even in the beginning years. In short it feels realistic now.

[danlisa]

ROTFLMAO:rotfl:

It's nice to this thread after the tirade when GWX was released. DD's are too hard, AI is too clever, the Uber AI is killing me in '39, The 'Eye Candy' killed me (opps that was mine) but you get the idea. See how everyone has adapted to the new style needed to survive?

Even in the early part of the war DD's & escorts still deserve respect, if you don't take due care & attention, YOU WILL DIE. However, if you follow the basic rules, as laid out the the ASW section in the manual, then you'll have no problems in dealing with the early war enemy.

However, as many have said, you need this time to train properly because if/once you reach the beginning of '43 things are going to change. One wrong move and you will die , in fact you might even do everything right and still die. Such was life.

[Henri II]

Originally Posted by Castout

Here you may want to try this mod to upscale the escort difficulty:
http://www.ebort2.co.uk/

i believe it can be used with GWX it just changes some AI sensor files.
btw it's not JSGME ready so if you want to use JSGME you need to create thye appropiate folders yourself. I found the DDs aren't that easy(and not way too hard) anymore even in the beginning years. In short it feels realistic now.

Looks interesting, however the link on this page does not seem to work. Any idea where else I can find it?

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Henri II

Looks interesting, however the link on this page does not seem to work. Any idea where else I can find it?

Yes i just tried the link nd it doesn't work however my bookmark works as usual though the address is exactly the same.
http://www.ebort2.co.uk/

try googling.
The author nick is CB

Here's the excerpt from his web

WORLD'S TINYIEST SH3 SUPERMOD
VASTLY IMPROVED DESTROYER BEHAVIOUR
REVISED VIEW SYSTEM-
ENHANCED GAMEPLAY
IMPROVED REALISM
IT MAY BE TINY BUT IT WORKS---

EDIT: If anybody's is still interested perhaps i could upload it somewhere. But i need to get permission from the author first(CB). I even will make it JSGME ready. Does anyone know how to contact CB? Perhaps he's a regular at the forum?

[Rick Martin]

Like you I'm operating early in the war 1939-40 and have only run in to a few escorts so far. Been able to evade them usually by going deep/silent and making some radical twists and turns when they make their DC runs. The GWX mod really adds to the gameplay and forces you to be aggresive but still careful. While doing a single mission (ITALIA), I found the Italian escorts really aggressive. I noticed that the escorts started pinging me almost as soon as I fired a torpedo spread. I did some research and was surprised to find that Itallian and German DD's only had hyddrophones and not sonar so was surprised to hear the pings. Would like to see some mods to command some Brit boats too. They took a lot of loses in the Med and North Sea but still got the job done. OH well, maybe another time. Just be aware as your career moves ahead, Those escorts will get tougher.

[Jimbuna]

The escorts start reaching 'veteran' and 'elite' status after mid 42 ish....then you find out which horse kicked you

[HunterICX]

1939?

Come back after you survived 44