I miss Silent Hunter 1

[mcoca]

Years and years ago (gosh, I must be getting old), I was completely hooked to the original Silent Hunter. I played it for years, despite the fact that nobody ever bothered to translate the patches to the Spanish version, so I was stuck playing the retail version (1.0?).

I just loved the excitement, the way you went from hunter to prey in an instant when the first torpedo went off. I loved being chased by destroyers diving like crazy, taking my boat to the outer edges of test depth with an eye on the bathythermograph, hoping to find a thermal layer before I hit bottom or the boat was crushed.

Somehow this excitement is just missing in SH4. Yesterday I sunk my 50th merchant or so. I just snapped, and went into a group of unescorted merchants, surfaced and guns blazing. Why bother taking the stealth approach, when there is no risk? I've only been depth charged once in the entire game, and the destroyer gave up a minute after losing contact and returned to its escort station. I continued my approach and sunk a couple of ships.

You can sink tens of thousands of tons without seeing a destroyer, and when you do, it's with a convoy so large it can't really protect it. I miss those small convoys from SH1: 2-3 merchants protected by 1-2 destroyers. The fight was almost personal. Maybe not exactly realistic, but much more fun. My average SH1 career lasted two or three patrols, and generally ended when I tried to attack a task force. Now I only get killed by aircraft.

Please don't get me wrong, I enjoy SH4 a lot, even with all the small problems, or I wouldn't have spent all this time playing it. It has many small details that I missed in other subsims. I really like how you can keep requesting new orders that send you all over the Pacific. But that special touch is missing.

Does anybody else feel the same way, or am I just suffering from Grampa Simpson syndrome?

[GOZO]

Sounds like it's time for the NYGM-team to take on SHIV. It was the same thing with SHIII before the proper mods were installed like the "anti hummingbird" mod and the new 'Evil escorts'

Teddy????? pleeease

OB

[Zepheron]

Just finnished a patrol in SH 1, man that sim is still fun. The radar set and destroyer aggressiveness in SH 1 is far superior to SH 4 so far. I'm sure that will change in time. Till then SH 1 will stay on the hard drive.

[AirborneTD]

I don't know. I'm not seeing wimpy DDs. I was on my first patrol in Balao heading for the E China Sea when I ran across a convoy. I lined up between escorts and put torpedoes into 2 large freighters. Escorts came in my area but I evaded. I stayed too close hoping to polish off a cripple when I was spotted and forced deep. I was damaged severely even after dodging under the layer. I was just able to save the boat and limp away. Both periscopes out and my battery would not charge above 40. Plus, even after diverting to Mios Woendi to top off fuel, my battery was not repaired and I had a fuel leak that caused me to run out before I even made it to Johnston IS.

I do miss the radar screen from SHI, though.

[Chock]

SH1 still works on my computer (I was a real sucker for it, got all the mission patrol disks too). Nevertheless, looking at it today does offer some interesting comparisons.

The graphics are obviously not as cool, but the 2D sub stations are in most cases slightly easier to use, and wow factor and eye candy aside, many people have expressed a preference for this approach to oft-used stations.

In terms of functionallity, there is little difference between the systems simulated in earlier sub sims such as Silent Service, Aces of the Deep and the original Silent Hunter. For example: Silent Hunter 1 offers the following.. Control Room, Persicope, TBT, Bridge, Charts, TDC, Gauges, Damage Control, Radar and Deck Gun stations. Also Accelerated Time, Full Range of Engine speeds, Emergency Blow, Crash Dive, Persicope Depth, Radar Depth and Surface commands.

How complex the simulation of these things is, is another matter, although everything from adjustable torp speeds to offset gyro angles is certainly present in the original Silent Hunter.

Having said that, the eye-candy aspect for many is a big deal, and while it's not such a biggie for me, it is very cool. (in short, yes I like it, but its lack would not have been a deal-breaker for me). But you would have to be blind to not notice how far the submarine simulation has come in terms of looks with the release of SH4 though.

It's nice to be able to 'walk' about in your submarine a bit, but I think what people would really like is: 2D stations for use, AND to be able to walk around the entire interior of a submarine in a manner similar to a first person shooter, This is clearly possible to do, since you can do it in one of the missions in the Game 'Hidden and Dangerous 2', where you have to capture an enigma encoder from a U-Boat. It's obvious to me that many would also welcome this from the responses posted to the 'open hatch mod' for SH3, which has been welcomed and praised almost universally by SH3 skippers, and is indeed an impressive mod.

Shift F2 in SH4 is okay for the curious, but it is hardly an emulation of walking about, so in that sense, things haven't moved on from SH1 as much as they could have done. To do something like having a boat you could move around inside would obviously require quite a bit more modelling than what SH4 has as standard, but it is far from impossible, and a similar thing has in fact been implemented in the MMORPG 'Vanguard' where players can have their own ship, sail it about and walk around on it. Interestingly, one of the problems with this initially, was people falling off their ships at sea, but in a game where first-person perspective is the prime mode, this is understandable, and it has been solved (by the way, for all of you complaining about SH4 bugs, if you want to see a game with bugs, check out Vanguard).

Personally, I would like a sub sim where you could walk up to the thing at the dock, go up a gangplank and get in it seamlessly and then sail off in career mode. Whether any simulation developer will ever do this is anyone's guess.

The 'putting you there' approach to sims has been dabbled with on occasion, notably in Combat Flight Simulator 3 (which many condemned, but I personally quite liked). In that you started your mission sat on the airfield near your aeroplane. It stopped short of letting you walk around the thing, but added elements where your character's ability was able to be developed over time with 'points' you could assign to things like G-Tolerance, ability to spot enemy aircraft etc. B-17 2: The Mighty Eighth (another flight sim well loved and well modded by many) also did this kind of thing and it added a personal touch to what, in simulations, can be sometimes a little clinical. IL-2 (yet another flight sim) went the opposite way, and it suffers greatly for that in my opinion, in that it's a great sim, but it has perhaps the most soul-less interface of any game ever.

Many lament the passing of the paper manual as a nice thing to have (me included) and this is certainly one area where older sims win hands-down, however, forums such as subsim and the ability to easily search the net for information have made the paper manual less of an absolute necessity these days. Nevertheless, with the current solution for many games of putting the manual on PDF, I think it's fair to say that's always something of a disapppointment for most people when they open up their latest game or sim. To be fair though, the manual for the original Silent Hunter only runs to about 20 more pages than the current SH4 manual (both of which are printed), and the original SH manual is not vastly detailed. In fact it compares miserably with the Silent Service 2 manual, which pre-dates it by about four years and runs to 128 pages. So even at that stage we could see a trend starting.

I think your rose-tinted spectacles may be less rose-tinted than you suspect with regard to the original SH, but things have moved on all the same.

Excellent post.....totaly agree.

[TDK1044]

I miss my first car, but on balance I'd rather have the one I have now.

[mcoca]

Originally Posted by Chock

Silent Hunter 1 offers the following.. Control Room, Persicope, TBT, Bridge, Charts, TDC, Gauges, Damage Control, Radar and Deck Gun stations. Also Accelerated Time, Full Range of Engine speeds, Emergency Blow, Crash Dive, Persicope Depth, Radar Depth and Surface commands.

Don't forget "Abandon ship". Whenever I used it, I felt slightly good. At least I had managed to save my crew.

The 'putting you there' approach to sims has been dabbled with on occasion, notably in Combat Flight Simulator 3 (which many condemned, but I personally quite liked). In that you started your mission sat on the airfield near your aeroplane.

You can do that in the Operation Flashpoint series, including ArmA. Although the flight model in those games is not exactly great

To be fair though, the manual for the original Silent Hunter only runs to about 20 more pages than the current SH4 manual (both of which are printed), and the original SH manual is not vastly detailed. In fact it compares miserably with the Silent Service 2 manual, which pre-dates it by about four years and runs to 128 pages. So even at that stage we could see a trend starting.

Don't talk to me about the first SH manual. I got the version translated into Spanish, and it must have been translated by Babelfish 0.1, or by someone who knew nothing about ships. It called carriers "cargo ship", for example.

Originally Posted by TDK1044

I miss my first car, but on balance I'd rather have the one I have now.

Okay, you've got a point I don't think I could go back to SH1 either, but I wish some more of that style of gameplay could be brought back to SH4.

[Sailor Steve]

You can still play SH1 if you want. There's a downloadable program called 'DosBox' that lets you run all the old classics.

I too loved SH1, and I had the collected Silent Hunter Commander's Edition, with all the patrol discs added in, plus a new one they never released separately. Until a year ago I used to go back and play it and Aces Of The Deep occassionally. I liked the eye candy in SH3, but not the play so much until I found the right mods I liked and SH3 Commander, which added a lot of cool stuff reminiscent of AOD. I'm hoping SH4 will end up the same way eventually.

As for 2D screens and systems, I remember when SH3 was still under development. We were talking about what we wanted and expected, and I said "I'd be perfectly happy with an updated Aces, with SH2-style graphics. I felt the same way about SH1 and SH4, but of course now I like the 3D interiors and all the crew doing things, especially up on the bridge.

We'll see what the future brings.

[CCIP]

I never did play SHI though I got no doubt it was a great game back in the day. I did play Silent Service and that's why I'm here today, because I loved it to death.

I'm starting to miss SHIII, too. With my time restricted, I lately had to choose and I'm about ready to officially decomission SHIII.

And re: soul / soullessness factor - I don't think it's fair to accuse SHIV of doing that. As far as games in general and sims specifically go, you gotta admit that it went the longest way to put in some of those roleplaying elements - more so than any other sim I can remember for the past 6-7 years.

[FIREWALL]

Still available on ebay . Average price $4.00 floppy

As SS pointed out need to use DOSBOX.

[FAdmiral]

Yes, I had & played many, many hours of SH1, SH2 +(Destroyer Command)
SH3 and now SH4. The lackluster DDs (unrealistic AI) I had in my first install
of SH4 almost turned me off but then I read other posts that had just
the opposite reaction. I tried some adjustment to the various files but just
could not get the AI to perform. So as last resort, I uninstalled game completely
and reinstalled. SURPRISE !! Now I had a game that was giving me trouble.
Pings were heard from DDs (never heard them in first install) and I was taking
damage unless I did everything smart. I had my game back....
CONCLUSION: Something didn't load right in the first install, end of line.......

JIM

[richoahu]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You can still play SH1 if you want. There's a downloadable program called 'DosBox' that lets you run all the old classics.

i downloaded the dos box but can't figure out how to use it :-(

anyone got a step by step list on how to get it to play SH1?

thank you for any help!

[Hartmann]

A great sim !!

I have it running with dosbox and d-fend and still is a great sim, also is a good point see what differences in gameplay with sh4, and in some things still superior.

Some 2d interface and screens are still very cool like, tdc, damage management, captain cabin with log book and calendar, and finaly radar interface. with clear images and easy to read.

Finally the gameplay, scorts doing well his work, reacting when the submarine is detected and dangerous in depth charging. ships zigzagging and scaping at full speed when the first fish hit a target...

And the sound, very cool, if the sounds could be extracted and use with sh4 ... but not for a release mod , only for personal use.....(copyrights and law issues)
Sh4 have nice graphics but the gameplay was developed with sh1

[MaciejK]

I had the same with SH3 and AotD. I thought I'm gonna try AotD until SH3 is patched enough. But even wwith all the fascinating thingies from Aces, it couldn't beat the SH3-with-bugs. The car reference posted above is great here. I just think we were all younger and the memories of the days that passed and won't return makes the picture of SH1 a bit one-sided, forgeting about the bugs and remembering only good emotions. just like humans do, subsimmers too

Now I'm off to my next patrol near Luzon...

S!

M