Gun-Free-School-Fraud Costs Lives Again

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I have seen many laws promulgated because of a few bad actors. I'm sure you have also. Like everything else in a democratic nation the lives of the few are often sacrificed for the freedom of the many. I am very concerned for the families of those who lost their loved ones.

The people who died at VT were a sacrifice?

Basic freedoms are paramount. Because your culture and your countries poplulace does not wish to exercise those freedoms does not abrogate them.

Maybe my government is making a value judgement.
If guns can be shown to have a net negative effect on society, should the concept of individual liberty prevail over the well-being of the society as a whole? I believe that the liberty of gun ownership in the US unfairly violates the individual liberties of many of it's citizens, such as the right to life.

As horrible as it may seem the VT students who died did so in advancement of all peoples rights to defend themselves, be it from their government or any individual who is bent on doing them harm.

Yes, but should dangerous weapons be put in the hands of those not fit to use them. I see the US gun laws as allowing this to happen, Cho for example .

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Maybe my government is making a value judgement.
If guns can be shown to have a net negative effect on society, should the concept of individual liberty prevail over the well-being of the society as a whole? I believe that the liberty of gun ownership in the US unfairly violates the individual liberties of many of it's citizens, such as the right to life.

Yes, but should dangerous weapons be put in the hands of those not fit to use them. I see the US gun laws as allowing this to happen, Cho for example .

The people who died at VT were a sacrifice?

Yes, unfortunately, they are the price of real freedom.

If guns can be shown to have a net negative effect on society, should the concept of individual liberty prevail over the well-being of the society as a whole? I believe that the liberty of gun ownership in the US unfairly violates the individual liberties of many of it's citizens, such as the right to life.

Please don't get me started here. Abortion.

Yes, but should dangerous weapons be put in the hands of those not fit to use them. I see the US gun laws as allowing this to happen, Cho for example

Other rights are in play also. I give you our fourth amendement.


If I missed anything please don't hesitate to point it out.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yes, but should dangerous weapons be put in the hands of those not fit to use them

No they shouldn't, as BTW the law already dictates. One big problem with enforcement however is the refusal of the medical establishment to report the names of people who have been diagnosed with mental illness.

The NRA favors an instant backround check for all firearm purchases nationally but that isn't going to help if there is no national database for such people.

Originally Posted by August

No they shouldn't, as BTW the law already dictates. One big problem with enforcement however is the refusal of the medical establishment to report the names of people who have been diagnosed with mental illness.

The NRA favors an instant backround check for all firearm purchases nationally but that isn't going to help if there is no national database for such people.

I know what you are trying to say August but you don't want to give up your right to privacy. Like your right to bear arms it is a basic human right.

If we do, soon they will walking into your home without a warrant.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I know what you are trying to say August but you don't want to give up your right to privacy. Like your right to bear arms it is a basic human right.

If we do, soon they will walking into your home without a warrant.

I'm speechless. I completely agree with you.

I need to go re-evaluate my world view.

[August]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I know what you are trying to say August but you don't want to give up your right to privacy. Like your right to bear arms it is a basic human right.

If we do, soon they will walking into your home without a warrant.

I fail to see how a national database for criminals and people with a history of mental illness would automatically lead to warrentless searches, but without it people like that VT monster can just lie on the form and buy all the guns they want.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by August

I fail to see how a national database for criminals and people with a history of mental illness would automatically lead to warrentless searches, but without it people like that VT monster can just lie on the form and buy all the guns they want.

Maybe it shouldn't just take 2 minutes to buy a gun anyway.

Takes me more than a year to get a driver's liscense. Why should a gun be so easy to get anyway?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Maybe it shouldn't just take 2 minutes to buy a gun anyway.

Takes me more than a year to get a driver's liscense. Why should a gun be so easy to get anyway?

A rifle maybe. Most states have a 2 week waiting period on a handgun since its easy to conceal.

They call it a cooling off period.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by August

I fail to see how a national database for criminals and people with a history of mental illness would automatically lead to warrentless searches, but without it people like that VT monster can just lie on the form and buy all the guns they want.

No, he is referencing taking away all arms. You missed the point. Re-read what he wrote.

-S

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Maybe it shouldn't just take 2 minutes to buy a gun anyway.

Takes me more than a year to get a driver's liscense. Why should a gun be so easy to get anyway?

Because one is a right and the other is a priveledge.

Originally Posted by August

I fail to see how a national database for criminals and people with a history of mental illness would automatically lead to warrentless searches, but without it people like that VT monster can just lie on the form and buy all the guns they want.

It is the same slippery slope. Once we give up one restaint on gov't we give them all up.

[August]

Originally Posted by waste gate

It is the same slippery slope. Once we give up one restaint on gov't we give them all up.

There is no restraint in this case as the states already keep such records on their own. Take criminal records for instance. Without a national data base a person can have a criminal record long as your arm in one state but come out squeekly clean on a backround check done in another.

As long as we resist any and all attempts to consolidate these records on a national level, guns purchased from legal sources are going to keep getting into the wrong hands which will keep giving ammunition (pun intended) to those who would take RKBA away from all of us.

Originally Posted by August

There is no restraint in this case as the states already keep such records on their own. Take criminal records for instance. Without a national data base a person can have a criminal record long as your arm in one state but come out squeekly clean on a backround check done in another.

As long as we resist any and all attempts to consolidate these records on a national level, guns purchased from legal sources are going to keep getting into the wrong hands which will keep giving ammunition (pun intended) to those who would take RKBA away from all of us.

I guess that is where we differ. I believe in all restraints on gov't. My rights are more important to me than removing rights from others. I have made my choice.

[August]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I guess that is where we differ. I believe in all restraints on gov't. My rights are more important to me than removing rights from others. I have made my choice.

I'm not talking about removing rights from others. Already you don't have the right to purchase firearms if you are a convicted felon or have a history of mental illness. All i'm talking about is closing the loophole that allows these people to get away with buying them from legal sources.

If you know a better way to do this i'm all ears.

I believe in all restraints on gov't. My rights are more important to me than removing rights from others.

I will stand on this answer.