Gun-Free-School-Fraud Costs Lives Again

[SUBMAN1]

This one should raise a few eyebrows here.

-S

Virginia Is Latest State to Suffer


Another armed murderer has used the so-called Gun-Free-School-Zones law to simply walk onto school grounds and with impunity begin killing innocent children.


These dangerous criminals rely on the fact that no one on campus will be able to offer resistance. Congress passed the law in 1990 and renewed it in 1995 after the famous "Lopez" case declared it unconstitutional. Though it cannot stop murderers it has enabled many, experts say. States and schools themselves have copied the law locally for a false sense of security with disastrous effect...

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[UglyMowgli]

I prefer free gun school, my GF is professor in a University, imagine a guy/girl with a F at an exam, he/her draw his/her handgun and shoot at her just because she give him/her a F.

[Etienne]

From my limited knowledge, it seems that the best way to prevent school shoot outs, or just random knife fights, is to have metal detector screenings at the doors.

If you allow students to carry concealed, their purpose is defeated.

Someone on another board I frequent also brought up an interesting point. Suppose students are allowed to carry. One of them hears shot, pulls out his gun ("Yay, I'm Rambo!") and runs out in the hallway toward the sound of the shot.

Another student hears the shots, see someone running with a gun. Pulls out his own, and boom! Friendly fire!

Plus, it's not like the VT events are a common occurence. At all. A more common situation would be two students getting in an arguments, and having it escalate. Of course, no one would be stupid enough to pull a gun on someone over some petty disagreement.

Etienne

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

I prefer free gun school, my GF is professor in a University, imagine a guy/girl with a F at an exam, he/her draw his/her handgun and shoot at her just because she give him/her a F.

Maybe that happenes in France...

[Letum]

I'm not saying this wouldn't partially work....but it's hardly a ideal solution to have firefights in the classroom and it's hardly doing anything to deal with the cause of Americas mass-murdering students.
I am 100% sure there are better solutions.

Students in the UK might stab each other in muggings or when they fall out, but we don't get students shooting large numbers of class mates like America does. As far as I know, the same goes from the rest of Europe.
Clearly America is going wrong somewhere, until the causes are identified and fixed the killings will continue to go on, how ever many guns you give to the young people in the classrooms.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Etienne

From my limited knowledge, it seems that the best way to prevent school shoot outs, or just random knife fights, is to have metal detector screenings at the doors.

If you allow students to carry concealed, their purpose is defeated.

Someone on another board I frequent also brought up an interesting point. Suppose students are allowed to carry. One of them hears shot, pulls out his gun ("Yay, I'm Rambo!") and runs out in the hallway toward the sound of the shot.

Another student hears the shots, see someone running with a gun. Pulls out his own, and boom! Friendly fire!

Plus, it's not like the VT events are a common occurence. At all. A more common situation would be two students getting in an arguments, and having it escalate. Of course, no one would be stupid enough to pull a gun on someone over some petty disagreement.

Etienne

It is because you don't understand. If I carry a gun, and hear a gun shot, I am in no way going anywhere near the shot in the middle of a bunch of people. Forget it. Its a good way to get killed is why since it would be hard to pick out who the shooter was and he might see you first. To think that one would want to get into a firefight is one that has seen one too many movies. That is our big problem in this world - media. Media has twisted and warped our minds on many subjects. I guess we and these crazies are a product of our own society.

-S

[UglyMowgli]

You hear a shot, all people alos, so there is at least 200 gumens in the area with a gun in the hand, what to you think it will happen a mass cross murder, at the end not 30 death but 250.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Etienne

From my limited knowledge, it seems that the best way to prevent school shoot outs, or just random knife fights, is to have metal detector screenings at the doors.

It's hard to make that work on a university campus, where most of the school's area is outside. Besides, if a metal detector goes off, who do you have inside to respond? Someone with a gun. A metal detector by itself is useless.

Posts suggesting that guns lead to uncontrolled firefights are made by people unfamiliar with guns. I've worked in situations where people had weapons, and not one person ever pulled a gun and opened fire.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

You hear a shot, all people alos, so there is at least 200 gumens in the area with a gun in the hand, what to you think it will happen a mass cross murder, at the end not 30 death but 250.

Hardly. Nothing happens, as was shown in previous 2 school attempted shootings in which the school shooter was apprehended by civi's who happened to have their firearm present. So your 250 deaths only ended up being 1 in one case, and 0 in the next. This is how things should be, but this can only happen if CPP holders are allowed to carry on campus.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Letum

I'm not saying this wouldn't partially work....but it's hardly a ideal solution to have firefights in the classroom and it's hardly doing anything to deal with the cause of Americas mass-murdering students.
I am 100% sure there are better solutions.

Students in the UK might stab each other in muggings or when they fall out, but we don't get students shooting large numbers of class mates like America does. As far as I know, the same goes from the rest of Europe.
Clearly America is going wrong somewhere, until the causes are identified and fixed the killings will continue to go on, how ever many guns you give to the young people in the classrooms.

You are right in a way. It is a social problem. SOmething is making these people snap. Is it American pressures?

[Heibges]

When he writes "FBI-certified" he just means a National Agency Check, which just happens to be done by the FBI, and only amounts to a search to see if you have a criminal record. The way he makes it sound all these people are taking the firearms course at Quantico.

This little bit of doublespeak just about cripples his argument.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Heibges

When he writes "FBI-certified" he just means a National Agency Check, which just happens to be done by the FBI, and only amounts to a search to see if you have a criminal record. The way he makes it sound all these people are taking the firearms course at Quantico.

This little bit of doublespeak just about cripples his argument.

Most states do require a course however. You wouldn't know though because you live in Socialistic San Fran that doesn't allow CPP's! Where he is from is AZ which is also one of those states that req a course.

Originally Posted by Letum

Students in the UK might stab each other in muggings or when they fall out, but we don't get students shooting large numbers of class mates like America does. As far as I know, the same goes from the rest of Europe.
Clearly America is going wrong somewhere, until the causes are identified and fixed the killings will continue to go on, how ever many guns you give to the young people in the classrooms.

Eighteen people died when an expelled former pupil went on a shooting spree at his school in the German city of Erfurt. Masked and dressed in black, the gunman walked through classrooms killing 14 teachers, two schoolgirls and one of the first policemen on the scene before taking his own life. He was clothed completely in black and you could only see his eyes. Pupils of the Gutenberg School spent four hours trapped inside before police could declare the building safe. Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder described the massacre in the quiet provincial city as "beyond the powers of the imagination".

And this account from the New York Times in 1995: After murdering three relatives at home, a teen-ager walked to the next village today and calmly opened fire on a quiet town square, killing nine more people before turning the gun on himself. The incident was the country's worst multiple killing since 1989. "It was like he was hunting birds," said Guy Sintes, the owner of a cafe on the square in Cuers, a village near the Mediterranean port of Toulon. Television footage from the scene showed sidewalks and a car spattered with blood and a bullet hole through a shop window. "The people are devastated, totally traumatized," said the Mayor of Cuers, Guy Gigou. "The village is in shock." The boy was identified as Eric Borel, 16. The impetus for the killings was unclear. His father died recently of cancer. Neighbors, interviewed on French television, described him as taciturn and said his room was plastered with posters of Hitler and neo-Nazi themes.

Edit:
27-year-old Michael Ryan shot to death 16 people and wounded 14 others in the small farming community of Hungerford during the summer of 1987. After a "Rambo style" blood feast through the streets of Hungerford, he barricaded himself in a school building where he killed himself with a single gunshot to his head. The gunman, a loner who lived with his elderly mother, loved guns and television violence. The killing spree started in a forest outside of Hungerford. Wearing combat fatigues Ryan killed a woman who was preparing a picnic for her two children. Then he drove back to his house and killed his mother and the dog and set fire to the house. For the next two hours Ryan moved through the town, randomly killing or wounding anyone he met.
Ryan's rampage ended at the Local High School. Despondent over having killed his mum and dog, Ryan commented "I wish I had stayed in bed". After 4 hours and several talks with the police, he ended his life with the last round in his 9-mm. pistol. After his deadly rampage the British government took steps to end the right to have firearms, and to curtail television violence. Also, the film Rambo III was banned in several towns in the UK, because of Ryan's claim of being inspired by Rambo


Edit 2:
Marc Lepine killed 14 women at a Montreal university in 1989, believing feminists had wrecked his life.

Edit 3:
Thomas Hamilton (17) An avid gun collector and disgraced scoutmaster, Hamilton was known as "Mr. Creepy" by the boys in Dunblane, Scotland, a village 40 miles from Edinburg. Disliked by all his neighbors, Tom enjoyed taking pictures of young boys with their shirts off. His fixation with young boys eventually got him dropped by the Boys Scouts. In the 1980s he sponsored boys' athletic clubs but it just wasn't the same. Sadly, Hamilton never got over being dropped as a scoutmaster. After nearly twenty years, he was still seething with anger. A week before his deadly rampage Thomas wrote a letter to Queen Elizabeth II complaining about a campaign to ruin his reputation. The shame was just too much for him.
On March 13, 1996, Hamilton walked to the Dunblane Primary School with payback in mind. Armed with four guns, he burst into the gymnasium where 29 children were attending class. The vengeful ex-scoutmaster systematically slaughtered 16 kids, their teacher and then shot himself. Another teacher and a dozen other students were wounded during the rampage. The children, ages 5 and 6, were sitting in circles on the floor playing when Hamilton started firing. 13 kids died instantly. Three more died later in the hospital. Surrounded by bodies of the dead and dying, 43-year-old Hamilton turned the gun on himself and put a bullet through his brain.

Eric Borel (13) A bored French teenager, Eric woke up a Sunday morning with death on his mind. On September 24, 1995 Borel killed his mother, stepfather and brother with a hammer and a baseball bat. Then he picked up his .22-caliber hunting rifle, walked six miles to the village of Cuers and opened fire in a parking lot outside a bank and in the town square. During his half-hour morning rampage, he killed seven more people and wounded nine others before putting a bullet through his head. Two of the wounded died later in the hospital. Neighbors said the teenager was taciturn and probably upset over his father's recent death from cancer. The posters of Hitler and other neo-Nazi themes plastered all over his room also might have fueled his rage.

David Gray (13) New Zealand's worst mass murderer. In November 13, 1990, David slaughtered 13 people during a 24-hour rampage in the hamlet of Aramoana, a tiny seaside settlement in the province of Otago, near Dunedin in the South Island. He was finally shot dead by police.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Eighteen people died when an expelled former pupil went on a shooting spree at his school in the German city of Erfurt. Masked and dressed in black, the gunman walked through classrooms killing 14 teachers, two schoolgirls and one of the first policemen on the scene before taking his own life. He was clothed completely in black and you could only see his eyes. Pupils of the Gutenberg School spent four hours trapped inside before police could declare the building safe. Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder described the massacre in the quiet provincial city as "beyond the powers of the imagination".

And this account from the New York Times in 1995: After murdering three relatives at home, a teen-ager walked to the next village today and calmly opened fire on a quiet town square, killing nine more people before turning the gun on himself. The incident was the country's worst multiple killing since 1989. "It was like he was hunting birds," said Guy Sintes, the owner of a cafe on the square in Cuers, a village near the Mediterranean port of Toulon. Television footage from the scene showed sidewalks and a car spattered with blood and a bullet hole through a shop window. "The people are devastated, totally traumatized," said the Mayor of Cuers, Guy Gigou. "The village is in shock." The boy was identified as Eric Borel, 16. The impetus for the killings was unclear. His father died recently of cancer. Neighbors, interviewed on French television, described him as taciturn and said his room was plastered with posters of Hitler and neo-Nazi themes.

Edit:
27-year-old Michael Ryan shot to death 16 people and wounded 14 others in the small farming community of Hungerford during the summer of 1987. After a "Rambo style" blood feast through the streets of Hungerford, he barricaded himself in a school building where he killed himself with a single gunshot to his head. The gunman, a loner who lived with his elderly mother, loved guns and television violence. The killing spree started in a forest outside of Hungerford. Wearing combat fatigues Ryan killed a woman who was preparing a picnic for her two children. Then he drove back to his house and killed his mother and the dog and set fire to the house. For the next two hours Ryan moved through the town, randomly killing or wounding anyone he met.
Ryan's rampage ended at the Local High School. Despondent over having killed his mum and dog, Ryan commented "I wish I had stayed in bed". After 4 hours and several talks with the police, he ended his life with the last round in his 9-mm. pistol. After his deadly rampage the British government took steps to end the right to have firearms, and to curtail television violence. Also, the film Rambo III was banned in several towns in the UK, because of Ryan's claim of being inspired by Rambo


Edit 2:
Marc Lepine killed 14 women at a Montreal university in 1989, believing feminists had wrecked his life.

Edit 3:
Thomas Hamilton (17) An avid gun collector and disgraced scoutmaster, Hamilton was known as "Mr. Creepy" by the boys in Dunblane, Scotland, a village 40 miles from Edinburg. Disliked by all his neighbors, Tom enjoyed taking pictures of young boys with their shirts off. His fixation with young boys eventually got him dropped by the Boys Scouts. In the 1980s he sponsored boys' athletic clubs but it just wasn't the same. Sadly, Hamilton never got over being dropped as a scoutmaster. After nearly twenty years, he was still seething with anger. A week before his deadly rampage Thomas wrote a letter to Queen Elizabeth II complaining about a campaign to ruin his reputation. The shame was just too much for him.
On March 13, 1996, Hamilton walked to the Dunblane Primary School with payback in mind. Armed with four guns, he burst into the gymnasium where 29 children were attending class. The vengeful ex-scoutmaster systematically slaughtered 16 kids, their teacher and then shot himself. Another teacher and a dozen other students were wounded during the rampage. The children, ages 5 and 6, were sitting in circles on the floor playing when Hamilton started firing. 13 kids died instantly. Three more died later in the hospital. Surrounded by bodies of the dead and dying, 43-year-old Hamilton turned the gun on himself and put a bullet through his brain.

Eric Borel (13) A bored French teenager, Eric woke up a Sunday morning with death on his mind. On September 24, 1995 Borel killed his mother, stepfather and brother with a hammer and a baseball bat. Then he picked up his .22-caliber hunting rifle, walked six miles to the village of Cuers and opened fire in a parking lot outside a bank and in the town square. During his half-hour morning rampage, he killed seven more people and wounded nine others before putting a bullet through his head. Two of the wounded died later in the hospital. Neighbors said the teenager was taciturn and probably upset over his father's recent death from cancer. The posters of Hitler and other neo-Nazi themes plastered all over his room also might have fueled his rage.

David Gray (13) New Zealand's worst mass murderer. In November 13, 1990, David slaughtered 13 people during a 24-hour rampage in the hamlet of Aramoana, a tiny seaside settlement in the province of Otago, near Dunedin in the South Island. He was finally shot dead by police.

Guess that pretty much puts to rest the "It doesn't happen in Europe" BS.

-S

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by Heibges

Most states do require a course however.

I don't know of any state that doesn't require a course.

In my state, you also have to be 23 years of age. And when the putz at the county jail can't fingerprint you properly, you have to go down to the state investigative bureau to get fingerprinted by some neurotic short chick. Even if your prints and DNA sample are already on file with the FBI, and you previously held a security clearance.



My only complaint is efficiency and the neurotic short chicks who tell you you're not relaxing your finger enough when it's actually just the fact she has to reach up to the counter to roll your finger across the page. Get a footstool, hunny.