Things you like or don't like about SH4

[joea]

Originally Posted by Beery

The problem is, what the game does have it spawns over and over again and in multiple places at the same time. I've seen three Yamatos in the same battlegroup - there were only two ever built.

Don't have the game yet but agree, read the USS Archerfish's patrol logs...just saw one big ship (Cv Shinano0 on her 5th patrol and nearly didn't get it. The escorts seemed to act like the dummies people complain about sometimes.

[patcroft]

Ok so I have been wrestling with SH4 since it was released and when I was very excited about it.

My first impression was wowed by the enhancements regarding the holes in the boats by torpedoes and looked realy foreward in reviewing it.

However for the life of me I cannot believe that something so successful as SH3 was completely changed in SH4. It is like someone from UBIsoft saw and liked the improvements from Microsofts Word 2000 from Microsofts Word 5. Some great things cannot be improved upon and the improvements generally become an end-users hinderance. The same can be said with SH4.

First and foremost I started playing Sub Battle twenty years ago and was excited about seeing SH3 because it resemble Sub Battle.

I have an entire list of things that do not work or do not work properly and it has become so frustrating that I am ready to chuck it and go back to the full enjoyment of SH3. Right now I am in a mission where if I submerge to avoid an assaulting aircraft the boat keeps going down and down and down untill it implodes. There is no possiblility of recovery.

Damage Control is pourly thought out and there is no measurement of the degree of trouble that we are in and nearly impossible to fix the damage.

The AA gun gets hidden from view when striking at an incoming plane.

Torpedoes cannot be tracked in the battle map. It worked once when I first installed the patch but I have been unable to see a torpedo hit a ship since.

There is no way to exit a mission once all the torpedoes are spent. And it is a struggle getting back to base if you cannot submerge without devastating disaster.

Wounded or dead sailors turn pink! huh! yah! Pink!

Can't track the planes and hard to track the ships meeting at night!

And what is with that silly chronmeter that keeps popping up. Very annoying!

And this list goes on and on.

I am thinkng that SH4 should have never been released with these fractions, and has a long way to go before it is fixed. Leads me to believe that the developers do not play their own games nor have any salty experiences to them.

They need to put the Pacific version into the SH3 version.

Thanks Much!
Pat

[scalelokt]

Lots of good rants, support, opinions, etc. in this thread.

For my two cents:

The Good
1. Graphics are amazing. I'm no graphics whore, gameplay is everything to me. But you have to admit, watching the sub sail by in free cam mode makes for a beautiful sight, and to me it adds a lot of immersion.
2. Crew management is pretty easy. They do their rotation, if I call battlestations they all do what they are supposed to pretty much.
3. Ship models and details are amazing, really lifelike and very immersive
4. Even though there is some occasional slow down, the game runs very smoothly on my machine, which is pretty "middle of the road". I'm impressed with what this game can do on a mid to low end machine, didnt think it was possible.
5. Seems pretty easy to mod so far, thats a HUGE bonus since our mod community is the best of the best.

The Bad
1. Hardly worth saying since its been said a million times already, but the number of bugs is pretty overwhelming
2. Some of the game didnt seem too well thought out. Especially things like damage reports, crew voices, repairs, etc.
3. The graphics options are too few. The Environmental Effects especially is too "all encompassing". You either have transparent water, fog, etc etc or you dont get any of it. My machine runs with the transparent water pretty good, but the fog kills it so I have to do without both. Sounds like 1.2 will address this however.
4. The game in its release state doesnt make Ubi look too good, and honestly in the future I'll be likely to avoid buying games on the release date from them until I've read some reviews to see if the game was finished before it was shipped.

One word on all the bugs in the game. I see a lot of people post saying things like "how could the devs have missed this???" or "the devs must not have tested the game at all".

I'm no expert on the software industry, not even close. But to me it is obvious the Devs didnt have a thing to do with all these bugs. It was Ubi forcing its release before they had a chance to finish. My question is what do we do as the buyer to discourage companies like Ubi doing this?? Hell if I know... You could refuse to buy the game, but that would probably backfire. Sales would be low, they would interpret it as a loss of interest in sim games and just not make anymore, plus they wouldnt use the resources to get the game patched up to standards. You can be optimistic about the bugs being fixed and buy it, but then you encourage this business practice and sit on a game that is all but broken for a few months before its finally patched up. Kind of a catch 22 I guess.

My personal opinion is next time I wont be buying right away like I did this time. I cant encourage companies like Ubi to force the game devs to release an unfinished product. Not only that but you all know what its like to be really excited about a game and then it comes out unfinished like this, its a bit of a let down to be sure. Last point: another reason I feel I have to take some kind of a stand against the business practice of releasing games before they are done is this: I'm a big time believer in PC games (as are most of you obviously). Consoles are cool but PC is my thing. The problem is that PC games can be patched and consoles (unless this has changed without my knowing) cant be. You release a game for XBox and it either works or it doesnt, no fixing it after that. On PC it can always be fixed later so what the hell, release it whenever we want, fix it later. By the time the customers realize its unfinished it will be too late, they will have already bought it. Thats the only real blemish in the PC game industry, I hope someday companies like Ubi decide to stop that kind of practice. But if they get the same money either way I doubt it will change anytime soon.....

[edjcox]

2143 From position six miles ease of FEINIF Island on the eastern reef,
commenced zigzag search to the southwest at ten knots. Fired green Very
starts every fifteen minutes at the turns and midway of each leg, hoping
for any sort of answer from one of the rafts. The only reply, sighted on
some occasions, was a series of red or white lights in the neighborhood of
UMAN Island, which changed bearing rapidly as if flashed along a runway.
One of the pilots we recovered the following day had sighted our stars, but
was afraid to answer them.


1800 Held demonstration of all identification flares and stars (ex-smoke bombs)
for the benefit of the aviators on board, none of whom had seen them
before.

IDENTIFICATION:

The twenty tow aviators who witnessed a demonstration of submarine
identification flares Mk 10, 11, and 12, submarine emergency identification
signals Mk 2 Mod 2 (ex-smoke bombs), and Mk 1 comets (Buck Rogers gun),
unanimously doubt their ability to note any but the Mk 1 comet, and that one too
if already diving for an attack. Along this same line is the fact that every
pyrotechnic we could fire did not deter a friendly submarine from making an end
around on us during our last patrol forcing us to avoid at high speed as soon as
he dived. Sure identification is becoming increasingly important as we traverse
a thousand extra miles of U.S. patrolled waters. Further, it may not always be
possible or desirable to establish sanctuaries in coming operations, such an
incident arising in this very patrol when an enemy submarine shared our area for
a day or more.
Means for reliable identification is at hand in the simple Mk 3 (mortar
type) signal projector which was issued to submarines during 1938, but ordered
turned in before many were installed. The order to turn them in was based on
the fact that the submerged signal gun could fire pyrotechnics of similar color.
The person issuing the order evidently did not consider the prohibitive delay in
the use of the submerged gun for a surface projector. The Mk 3 projector
mentioned above provides a healthy pyrotechnic where it can be seen in a matter
of a second or two, and its effectiveness was demonstrated on one of our
submarines who reinstalled one prior to returning to the coast after her first
patrol. It successfully warded off numerous army planes, certainly the crucial
test. It is our present intention to procure one, at least for demonstration
during the training period. The fact that one of the pilots later recovered observed our green Very
stars during our night search east of TRUK but was afraid to answer, indicates
the need for a simple identification under these circumstances. Rather than
reverting to any complicated arrangement using a two or three color cartridge,
especially as there is no advantage in having the submarine signal visible at a
greater range the that from the raft, the following procedure is suggested as
standard. If accepted and publicized among aviators, it could well facilitate
some rescues:
(a) Submarine fire single green stars during night searches
as conditions permit.
(b) Raft reply with one of the five or six red stars with
which each is now provided.
(c) Submarine on sighting red star immediately reply with
green stars and close the bearing, firing additional stars as necessary.

[cyttorak]

when sub is set for "silent running" and giving order to surface, loud horn goes off.
the horn sound can be avoided by giving a "periscope depth" order.

i know this is only cosmetic bug, but anyway; i think it shouldn't be possible to play horns in a sub which is under "silent running"?

[PopManiac]

Hello y'all, it's been an extremely long time since I posted in the forum, but work obligations and the daily toll kind of kept me off the SH saga permanently, at least until I bought SH4. (Quite a hefty amount of money I had to pay since to play the game I also needed a new graphics card and ultimately a new PSU but anyway SH4 was the best excuse I needed!).

Having been 'out' for a long time I believe may provide me with a more distanced view of some things missing in SH4.

To begin with, where is the command to navigator (????) from SH3 that provides the range given the available oil reserve?

There is nothing more frustrating than to leave Pearl Harbor (in 1941), resupply in Midway, reach Honshu and begin a great and exciting patrol but then run out of 'gas' on the way back!!

Whereas in SH3, all you had to do was ask the navigator (???) and you had a very clear picture of the range given your current oil reserve.

On the other hand, there might be such a command somewhere that I missed on the manual, which brings me to another issue - why does Ubisoft issue great games with crappy manuals :p? (Same story with Lock On where no printed version of a manual was even present!).

At least charge a €1 or 2 extra and package a decent manual!

But I believe this opens a totally different chapter and I may be taking this too off-topic.

Anyway, great to be back!!!

[Komrad Mal]

Like the Graphics hate the bugs guess we need to wait for the patches now

[Snacko]

Just a short request.

Can you make the Chronograph, Radio, Message box, etc.... Remember where they are and stay in position even after I exit the game.

PS:
I also wish we could zoom in REAL close and much farther (x3) away in Unit Views (, .)

[Hans-Ulrich Rudel]

There are far to many planes, it is driving me nuts, it took me an hour to travel from Hawaii to Japan. Very boring trip.

[PopManiac]

Why do I get the feeling that this thread will go on and on loooong after even Patch 1.7?:p

Since I started playing today, I have been having one crash after another, possibly the bug reported about loading some saved games....

Somehow I sense an old feeling.... a feeling that takes me back to the days of Falcon 4.0 release 1.0

[LZ_Baker]

I just went out on my 11th war patrol. Wasgiven command of the brand new Balao for all my hard work (1 battleship, 2 heavy crusiers, 2 carriers, tons of tonnage) I didn't do my objective (drop a spy in Tokyo Harbor) but I sank 51,000 tons. I get back to Brisbane to find out I was transfered to Freemantle (thanks for telling me) I finnaly dock and get retired. I don't mind retiring (got to sell the war bonds and such) but the game says I was retired becuase my boat was out dated???? I was just given the lead boat of a brand new class!

[Gizzmoe]

This thread has served its purpose, time to unsticky it.

[geetrue]

Wow! This thread is like a ship that lost it's anchor ... on it's way down.

My post might be the last one before it reaches the portal of no return ...

Lets see now things I like about SH4 ... it's about submarine warfare in the Pacific in WWII ...

Things I don't like about SH4 that both patches 1.1 and 1.2 don't come on the original DVD ...

Will we be able to get a version of SH4 DVD only with both patches? :hmm:

[Hans-Ulrich Rudel]

Problems with SH4.

I have some questions and quires that need to be addressed in SH4.

1.I have a problem with medals and promotions. When I return to base after a patrol and go to the crew section I notice that I have been awarded with numerous promotions and medals. I am informed that by dragging a promotion or medal over a highlighted crew member that it will result in that crew member being able to receive the medal or promotion. This is not the case as there are no highlighted crew to receive as such. So I have numerous medals and promotion that I can not award. Why this is happening is beyond me! I spent plenty of time around the area to be patrolled, yet the game says that I have not completed the patrol even though I have 95k Tons shipping sunk on that patrol, I have to date a total of 305k Ton of shipping for 4 patrols and yet I have not been able to award anyone anything! Can some one please explain this? It maybe that I have not completed the patrol as the tick box said I did not. This is crazy as I spent all my patrol time in the area designated to the point of entering Tokyo harbour and surrounding harbours and sinking every ship (21) in those harbours. Note that it was far too easy to do this, in real life it would have been an impossible task. Just try sneaking through Gibraltar in GWX.

2.The crew management section has a lot to be desired, GWX is a far far better system, the manual that comes with SH4 is pathetic, as there is not nearly enough information on crew management, submarines available, weapons systems (Torpedos, Subs, Machine guns, Flack guns, Deck guns, Radar and Sonar) In GXW there is a time line on the availability of weapon systems, which allows you to plan your career. Please note that there is no explanation why there are ‘Men down on the deck” while on patrol, when I have not been attacked. These crew members seem to be suffering from psychological problems, and will result in the crew member icon turning pink; he is not dead, just totality useless. I would have thought that there would be at least an explanation of this in the manual, and how to avoid it if possible. These crew members can be replaced, at considerable expense in renown for decent crew.

3.The time line needs to be addressed as this game should be about total submersion as in GXW. The historical aspects are important as are the explanation of weapon systems, specifications and date availability. Note that the manual on GWX runs to 173 Pages and is full of historical and game play information. I need to make the point here is those upgrades really made a great game really fabulous. My hat is off to the wonderful crew at GXW.



4.I feel that SH4 was not ready for public release and that UBI soft need to get their act together on the management of the part of the company that handle, software development and sales and marketing ( At least they could have had a liaison with the crew at GXW). I feel that the person who wrote the copy on the manual for SH4 did not spend much time actually playing the game, or just assumes that you know as an example why a crew member turns pink. I could write a manual that would be 100 times better. Remember at $100 this game is not cheap! Maybe UBI reply to the software development team opinion that the game is not ready is “ We take on board that you guys in software are telling us the game is not yet ready yet for public release but you guys need to realise the accounting aspect, so we are going to release the game and get Joe Blogs from marketing to write a quick manual, don’t you guys worry about the bugs, we can fix that with patch 1.1 ,1.2, 1.3,1.4, 1.5 and so on, also remember GXW, those guy did it all for free, and so did the guys from Subsim with all their add ons, so stuff the public and release the game.”

5.I have noticed a time compression bug. When starting a patrol time compression works well but after time it slows down to the point that coming home can be a real pain, try 512 time compression and it will take 3 hours to get home. You can not set it and go watch TV as you will be attacked and sunk by aircraft! I think that this happens because on patrol I save often, as you should! Remember that a decent patrol with all torpedos and deck ammunition used can take a better part of 6 hours in real time, that saving games is a must for obvious reasons. If you play the game smart you can on average receive 100k ton per patrol. The problem in regards to this is not my computer as I have tried turning the graphics down to low on the return home and it makes no difference, only when I start my next mission will the bug be fixed but at the end of that patrol the problem will raise its ugly head again.

6.I paid $100 for the collector’s edition of SH4; it came with a recognition manual. The keel depth on every ship is incorrect! on every ship I have sunk. As you are aware exploding a torpedo below the keel is the most efficient way to sink a ship with the minimum of weapons. As running depth of torpedos is only efficient to approximately .5 of a metre this information is critical. I also notice that the ship recognition manual when in game attack mode keyboard key (N) cannot identify merchant shipping as merchant shipping is not there. If there is a system to identify merchant shipping I would like to know how to do it.

7.The Medals are historically incorrect. If I am wrong or there is a reason for this, please advise if I am wrong. .

8.The depth setting gauge for torpedos is too small, hard to adjust and should be in at least .5 metre increments.

I have a lot more complaints in regards to SH4, but I have at this stage written enough for food for thought as of now. My comments are in no way a bad commendation for SH4 as it is still a great game, just sort out the bugs, improve the game play, rewrite the manuals (by someone who understands the game play and the historical aspects 100% and UBI soft will make one of the best games EVER!) Please note that I could be wrong in my observations and conclusions of SH4. I would be please to be shown wrong in the above.

As can be seen I have put in a considerable amount of time and thought in the above copy. It could be that I have missed items and instructions in the game play or maybe I am a bit stupid. Please advise!

Remember that I paid good money for this game and I know that in business there is only one thing and that is customers. As a customer I am extremely disappointed in the game play of SH4 and feel strongly that it was and is not yet ready to release to the general public. My comments are only my opinion, and we all have one of those too! But in the long haul I am a customer and I demand excellence for the exchange of my hard earned money. In summery the graphics and detail in SH4 are superb, but I am far more interested in historical aspects and true and workable game play than in pretty pictures. A lesson need to be learned from the guys at GXW.

In parting remember that submarine SUMULATION GAMES are all about TOTAL SUBMERSION.

[DimDoms]

this is where I should add my likes and dislikes of of SH4, and since 1.2 and with a few mods it's looking really good, both visually (turning off Volumetric Fog an improvement for me, also FSAA) as well as gameplay/rpg, though I look forward to a working chronometer and a properly working radar, more obedient staff (is it training I ask myself?), and removal of the funnies (anyone seen the somersaulting plane crash or stayed on deck as the water goes over?)

Reckon a few more tweaks (convoy AI as well as the above) and this game will be unstoppable for a while. I'm already looking forward to the rest of my patrol in the Bismarck Sea (more areas, more missions (another improvement!). Hoping there's more improvements to come.

Bring on SH4 Commander!

D.