Iranian mindgames

[STEED]

The 15 Royal Navy personnel captured by Iran described today how they were blindfolded, bound and subjected to “constant psychological pressure” during their 13 days in captivity.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1623146.ece

Well the other side of the story is out now.

[SUBMAN1]

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S

[Platapus]

Yup no one can really know what they experienced but them.

I hope they will be given some slack. They are all young kids thrown into a difficult stressful situtation

Monday morning quartbacking (or what the hell they call it over in Brit land) won't accomplish anything

We got them back safe and there was no shootin. This is a classic win-win. Let's both declare victory and move on.

[TteFAboB]

Setting my timer. Let's see how long untill the first Human Rights organization cries foul.

[tycho102]

That whole situation sucked.

The Iranians showed up as the boarding team were just leaving the ship in their inflatable boats. They would have had to speed/swim back to the cargo boat, and climb back up the ladder onto the ship to be able to "fight". The Iranians had 20mm anti-aircraft guns on their armoured boats. The Brits had life vests and a few pistols and rifles.

The team can be faulted for not being situationally aware, but the Iranian boats could have gone from shore to the cargo ship in just about 5 minutes (10km@45kts). Likely they didn't even have to go that far. Besides that, the Iranians scouted out this particular operation. We now know that we will actually have to secure our boarding teams -- imagine that in a conflict zone.

Bush still hasn't learned the concept of "securing the borders". Won't do it in America, didn't do it in Iraq. Why should Blair, a fellow neocon, understand the concept of "securing the boarders?"

[ASWnut101]

Why am I not surprised?


Now the qustion remains (one for another topic, maby): Were they in Iraninan waters?

[Rykaird]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Setting my timer. Let's see how long untill the first Human Rights organization cries foul.

Hope your timer is calibrated in geologic ages and not weeks or months.

A couple of questions. Are these folks in the military? Is the British military not voluntary? Why is it that they are under 'a lot of stress'? Do the Brits not train their soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen?

Stop treating these people as civilians. It was their job to go in harms way. This 'OMG' my poor child syndrome has to end. These people knew or should have known that their job will put them in danger. This isn't a game we play on our computers. It is real life.

[Skybird]

What have you all expected - that they would be kept in a five-star hotel with room service and Geishas on call? If one is defending the practices at Guantanamo, one can hardly complain about the treatment of the sailors in Iran. If it is no bad treatment here, then it cannot be called bad treatment there.

The public has no evidence of what happened during the incident. the public also has not seen evidences concerning the accusations of the prisoners in Guantanamo. A photo showing a hand holding a GPS device is simply no evidence, it could have been taken anywehre, after the incident, with a manipulated device. We (the public) simply don't now, and will not know as long as there is no analogue air or satellite picture showing the boats and the coastline so that the exact position can be calculated. And even that could be forged. Even easier with digital images.

I don't trust anybody concerning this incident.

[RedMenace]

Y'all do realize that the US does the exact same thing, right? This isn't anything new or unsual folks, go back to bed.

[ASWnut101]

Really?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Really?

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/doc...al_version.pdf

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=30530

[ASWnut101]

Intresting. I hardly call most of that tourture, but I can see a few slipping though the cracks. No biggie, they got what they deserved, I think.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Hmm. Wasn't the US criticized for using the same interrogation techniques? How come no one is jumping up and down about it?

-S

Human rights organizations do pick up on these things. The reason why there won't be a huge stink about it is that Iran is practically an authoritarian state. Articles like the OP are just icing on the cake; we have come to expect this kind of treatment from Iran. It's not news. Was anyone expecting the prisoners to be treated better than they actually were? I expected worse.

The US, on the other hand, is imbued with liberal principles - e.g. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - and other certain "unalienable" rights which, well, start edging on alienable when people get locked away and tortured without being given a reason. This is not really congruent with these principles, so it's more shocking for the public.

[JSLTIGER]

Originally Posted by fatty

Human rights organizations do pick up on these things. The reason why there won't be a huge stink about it is that Iran is practically an authoritarian state. Articles like the OP are just icing on the cake; we have come to expect this kind of treatment from Iran. It's not news. Was anyone expecting the prisoners to be treated better than they actually were? I expected worse.

The US, on the other hand, is imbued with liberal principles - e.g. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - and other certain "unalienable" rights which, well, start edging on alienable when people get locked away and tortured without being given a reason. This is not really congruent with these principles, so it's more shocking for the public.

However, this raises the unanswered question, which is, are non-US citizens protected by the freedoms granted in the Constitution? This question has not yet been resolved, and until it is, the Bush administration will probably continue to operate under the assumption that non-US citizens do not have the Constitutional guarantees.