Test depth: SH4 vs. a little research

Avatar · 04-04-07, 12:44 PM

Hello,
I'm playing a P class submarine and I have a book called "World War Two Submarines," by Bagnosci, or something sorry. The book is very informative and has technical drawings, lists manufacturers, specs, and a ton more, even experimental subs and the glorious Tench class. However, it lists the P Class as having an operational depth of 250 ft. whereas in SH4, anytime I go below 150 ft. I start seeing crewmen wrenching pipes back together.
Could there be something wrong, or am I being mislead by the book? Also, what is the real test depth?
Thanks

NefariousKoel · 04-04-07, 12:46 PM

I've easily been past 300ft in a P class before. Has yours received prior damage?

mookiemookie · 04-04-07, 12:46 PM

From Wikipedia:

"Test depth is the maximum depth that a submarine is permitted to operate at under normal (e.g. peacetime) circumstances, and is in fact tested at during sea trials. In the United States Navy, it is set at two-thirds of design depth[1]. The Royal Navy sets test depth at a little deeper than half (4/7) of the design depth[1], and the Deutsche Marine sets it at exactly one-half of design depth[1].

The maximum operating depth[2] (popularly called the never-exceed depth) is the maximum depth that a submarine is allowed to operate at under any (e.g. battle) conditions."

This could explain the divergence between the two numbers. That being said, I think that the game should allow you to go deeper without damage. I believe they're using test depth as maximum depth.

Avatar · 04-04-07, 12:53 PM

I was undamaged when this happened.
I'll try to go as deep as possible tonight and see when the really damage occurs.
This is strange to me, because sometimes I come back from patrol and I have 2 wound badges to give to my crew, and I was sure we didnt receive any damage.
Thanks for the info

AVGWarhawk · 04-04-07, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatar

I was undamaged when this happened.
I'll try to go as deep as possible tonight and see when the really damage occurs.
This is strange to me, because sometimes I come back from patrol and I have 2 wound badges to give to my crew, and I was sure we didnt receive any damage.
Thanks for the info

The wound medal might be the dying conning tower crew or slowly dying. It is a bug.

OakGroove · 04-04-07, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatar

Hello,
I'm playing a P class submarine and I have a book called "World War Two Submarines," by Bagnosci, or something sorry. The book is very informative and has technical drawings, lists manufacturers, specs, and a ton more, even experimental subs and the glorious Tench class. However, it lists the P Class as having an operational depth of 250 ft. whereas in SH4, anytime I go below 150 ft. I start seeing crewmen wrenching pipes back together.
Could there be something wrong, or am I being mislead by the book? Also, what is the real test depth?
Thanks

Given a safety margin of 1.5 for WWII USN submarines, the P-Class should be able hack ~370ft +/- a few % randomness before entering crush depth.

Bilge_Rat · 04-04-07, 04:13 PM

they tended to be very conservative in the U.S. Navy about test depth, for example the Balao class had a test depth of 400 feet, but according to Silent Victory could survive a dive of 800 feet or 2 times test depth.

In 1969, a Balao class, USS Chopper accidently dove to 1,000 feet and survived, but the hull was badly damaged and the boat was decommissioned.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...8/deepdive.htm

p.s.: when a sub can lose control like that in a game, I will say it is a simulation, one of my pet peeves abouts sub sims is that the subs always handle like they are on rails.

-Pv- · 04-04-07, 09:13 PM

"...I'm playing a P class submarine and I have a book called "World War Two Submarines," by Bagnosci, or something sorry. The book is very informative and has technical drawings, lists manufacturers, specs, and a ton more, even experimental subs and the glorious Tench class. However, it lists the P Class as having an operational depth of 250 ft. whereas in SH4, anytime I go below 150 ft. I start seeing crewmen wrenching pipes back together..."

also:
"...This could explain the divergence between the two numbers. That being said, I think that the game should allow you to go deeper without damage. I believe they're using test depth as maximum depth..."

I don't think this is strictly so. In the readme that came with the game the published "test depth" is listed thus:

-------------------------------------
5.1 Submarine hull resistance and Death due to exceeding the maximum depth

Each submarine has a test depth beyong the captain should only venture in crisis situation.

S Class - Test Depth - 60 m
Pourpoise - Test Depth - 75 m
Salmon Class - Test Depth - 75 m
Sargo Class - Test Depth - 75 m
Tambor Class - Test Depth - 75 m
Gar Class - Test Depth - 75 m
Gato Class - Test Depth - 90 m
Balao Class - Test Depth - 120 m

Going deeper than this values always presents a risk.

Note that when you have a damaged hull, the depth limit for the submarine changes. The more damaged the submarine hull is, the less depth is the pressure hull capable of handling.

---------------------------------
60 meters is roughly 200 ft. I have been beyond 200 feet for reasonable periods without noticible damage. Remember, like SH3, there is a random factor for depth damage in each submarie hull the player takes command of. Some will not tolerate much beyond test and some will tolerate way beyond test. It's one of those things that adds drama to the game, not knowing for sure. Otherwise, every player will simply go down to the maximum depth, right down to the inch that everyone knows is safe and just stay there.

Remember in Das Boot the 1st thing the captian did was take it way below test to see how much the boat complained? From what I've read, US commanders did similar things (but not to such a holliwood extreme) while still close to home to see if the boat could be relied on in battle. I do something similar. As soon as I reach deep water for the 1st time, I take it a *little* beyond test and when I need to go deep with the enemy, I know I can go at LEAST THAT far as long as I'm not damaged for a little while, but I'm careful not to press my luck unnecessarily.
-Pv-

SKurj · 04-05-07, 07:22 AM

Ya also have to be careful doing your test.. as I found out...

Took a boat down deep, then steadily kept dropping a little at a time. I finally saw a leak so decided to surface. The boat imploded before I had risen 50ft. I never received any prior warning from the crew or the ship except for that small leak I noticed in the command room.

This was a Porpoise with the leak appearing at 403ft

04-04-07, 12:44 PM	#1
Avatar Commodore Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Way out there Posts: 603 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Test depth: SH4 vs. a little research Hello, I'm playing a P class submarine and I have a book called "World War Two Submarines," by Bagnosci, or something sorry. The book is very informative and has technical drawings, lists manufacturers, specs, and a ton more, even experimental subs and the glorious Tench class. However, it lists the P Class as having an operational depth of 250 ft. whereas in SH4, anytime I go below 150 ft. I start seeing crewmen wrenching pipes back together. Could there be something wrong, or am I being mislead by the book? Also, what is the real test depth? Thanks

04-04-07, 12:46 PM	#2
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I've easily been past 300ft in a P class before. Has yours received prior damage? __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

04-04-07, 12:46 PM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	From Wikipedia: "Test depth is the maximum depth that a submarine is permitted to operate at under normal (e.g. peacetime) circumstances, and is in fact tested at during sea trials. In the United States Navy, it is set at two-thirds of design depth[1]. The Royal Navy sets test depth at a little deeper than half (4/7) of the design depth[1], and the Deutsche Marine sets it at exactly one-half of design depth[1]. The maximum operating depth[2] (popularly called the never-exceed depth) is the maximum depth that a submarine is allowed to operate at under any (e.g. battle) conditions." This could explain the divergence between the two numbers. That being said, I think that the game should allow you to go deeper without damage. I believe they're using test depth as maximum depth. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

04-04-07, 12:53 PM	#4
Avatar Commodore Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Way out there Posts: 603 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I was undamaged when this happened. I'll try to go as deep as possible tonight and see when the really damage occurs. This is strange to me, because sometimes I come back from patrol and I have 2 wound badges to give to my crew, and I was sure we didnt receive any damage. Thanks for the info

04-04-07, 04:13 PM	#7
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	they tended to be very conservative in the U.S. Navy about test depth, for example the Balao class had a test depth of 400 feet, but according to Silent Victory could survive a dive of 800 feet or 2 times test depth. In 1969, a Balao class, USS Chopper accidently dove to 1,000 feet and survived, but the hull was badly damaged and the boat was decommissioned. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...8/deepdive.htm p.s.: when a sub can lose control like that in a game, I will say it is a simulation, one of my pet peeves abouts sub sims is that the subs always handle like they are on rails.

04-04-07, 09:13 PM	#8
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	"...I'm playing a P class submarine and I have a book called "World War Two Submarines," by Bagnosci, or something sorry. The book is very informative and has technical drawings, lists manufacturers, specs, and a ton more, even experimental subs and the glorious Tench class. However, it lists the P Class as having an operational depth of 250 ft. whereas in SH4, anytime I go below 150 ft. I start seeing crewmen wrenching pipes back together..." also: "...This could explain the divergence between the two numbers. That being said, I think that the game should allow you to go deeper without damage. I believe they're using test depth as maximum depth..." I don't think this is strictly so. In the readme that came with the game the published "test depth" is listed thus: ------------------------------------- 5.1 Submarine hull resistance and Death due to exceeding the maximum depth Each submarine has a test depth beyong the captain should only venture in crisis situation. S Class - Test Depth - 60 m Pourpoise - Test Depth - 75 m Salmon Class - Test Depth - 75 m Sargo Class - Test Depth - 75 m Tambor Class - Test Depth - 75 m Gar Class - Test Depth - 75 m Gato Class - Test Depth - 90 m Balao Class - Test Depth - 120 m Going deeper than this values always presents a risk. Note that when you have a damaged hull, the depth limit for the submarine changes. The more damaged the submarine hull is, the less depth is the pressure hull capable of handling. --------------------------------- 60 meters is roughly 200 ft. I have been beyond 200 feet for reasonable periods without noticible damage. Remember, like SH3, there is a random factor for depth damage in each submarie hull the player takes command of. Some will not tolerate much beyond test and some will tolerate way beyond test. It's one of those things that adds drama to the game, not knowing for sure. Otherwise, every player will simply go down to the maximum depth, right down to the inch that everyone knows is safe and just stay there. Remember in Das Boot the 1st thing the captian did was take it way below test to see how much the boat complained? From what I've read, US commanders did similar things (but not to such a holliwood extreme) while still close to home to see if the boat could be relied on in battle. I do something similar. As soon as I reach deep water for the 1st time, I take it a little beyond test and when I need to go deep with the enemy, I know I can go at LEAST THAT far as long as I'm not damaged for a little while, but I'm careful not to press my luck unnecessarily. -Pv-

04-05-07, 07:22 AM	#9
SKurj Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 57 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ya also have to be careful doing your test.. as I found out... Took a boat down deep, then steadily kept dropping a little at a time. I finally saw a leak so decided to surface. The boat imploded before I had risen 50ft. I never received any prior warning from the crew or the ship except for that small leak I noticed in the command room. This was a Porpoise with the leak appearing at 403ft