Some Impressive Realism

WFGood · 03-31-07, 03:40 PM

I just finished a patrol to Honshu and the South China Seas, of which I have made several, but I encountered some pretty cool things during this patrol. At one point I came across 6 Zeros which seemed to be circling an area of ocean for no reason. Being curious I went in to investigate. When I got right into the middle of their circle, I found a downed airman swimming in the water. Not only were the planes circling to watch over the comrade, but he was actually swimming in the water! I was pretty amazed. I did not stick around to see the results, but it appeared that two ships were coming to rescue him. They were heading straight for him, and since they were Fubuki's and I was already damaged, I did not wait around to see what they were going to do. It was very realistic. It is exactly what pilots would do to ensure a fellow aviator was found after going down at sea.
The other encounter was with a DD which surprised me out of the fog and ran me down. I managed to avoid being rammed dead center, but he did damage the after torpedo room severely, preventing me from diving. We shot it out on the surface. I was able to stay in close enough where he could not use his main battery to shoot at me, and I was able to finally sink him. What really amazed me was the fact that crewmen were actually falling down on deck as rounds impacted near them. It was really very immersive. As the ship finally sank there were still a couple lying on the deck spreadeagle as if they were trying to hold on as the stern rose. My hats off to the design team!
Finally, I have to say that the damage model for the sub is much more realistic. I was able to repair the bulkhead, but it remained weakened and susceptible to damage for the rest of the patrol, as it would in real life. I am very impressed, and it makes it much more realistic. After being damaged, a captain must way the condition of his ship when planning an attack. A damaged boat can no longer just make repairs and dive to maximum depth as if nothing has happened.
Minor annoyances aside, I have to say Bravo Zulu to the design team! Keep it up!

nattydread · 03-31-07, 04:53 PM

I do wonder how realistic it was to execute and win a knife fight agaisnt a DD while sustaining damage to your aft section

Nice going not being seen when you came up on the downed sailor, had you been seen, the realistic thing would have been calling in support to attack you. I wouldnt have been surprised if they'd have depth charged you with the downed pilot still in the water.

ElAurens · 03-31-07, 05:05 PM

In reality Japanese search and rescue was pretty much non-existant.

nattydread · 03-31-07, 05:18 PM

you know, I figured that.

OlegM · 03-31-07, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFGood

The other encounter was with a DD which surprised me out of the fog and ran me down. I managed to avoid being rammed dead center, but he did damage the after torpedo room severely, preventing me from diving. We shot it out on the surface. I was able to stay in close enough where he could not use his main battery to shoot at me, and I was able to finally sink him.

And you call this REALISTIC!?!? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

StandingCow · 03-31-07, 05:33 PM

Yea, I noticed that Destroyers are not hard to outgun from the surface at all.. in fact in a multi player mission, after being very damaged I took one out with my deckgun.. and my buddy took out like.. 5 with his deck gun...

WFGood · 03-31-07, 06:07 PM

I was referring more to the damage effects and the fact that the DD could not lower its guns and hit a target at close range. (Perhaps, I should have made that more clear.) I know of a case of an American submarine which survived ramming a maru, but have never come across the opposite. And no, the Japanese were not known for search and rescue efforts of individual pilots. They even left crews of sunken vessels in the water at times, but it does add to the flavor of the game immensely, but the way it was handled was exactly how allied fleets would have handled it. It would be interesting to see if the situation occurs in game with Allied aircraft.

malkuth74 · 03-31-07, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandingCow

Yea, I noticed that Destroyers are not hard to outgun from the surface at all.. in fact in a multi player mission, after being very damaged I took one out with my deckgun.. and my buddy took out like.. 5 with his deck gun...

Now as Paul Harvey Would Say.

Now for the Rest of the Story.

The Planes following the downed pilot where not watching over the crewman they were fallowing the FlightLeader that got shot down, and didn't know what to do.

The Destroyers coming were coming for you, because you were spotted by the 6 planes flying around that you were so interested in.

And last, you vs a Destroyer should be you dead. End of story. :rotfl:

WFGood · 03-31-07, 06:16 PM

I guess it would be theoretically possible thouh highly unlikely for a submarine to win a gun duel with a DE or Frigate. I remember reading somewhere about an Italian submarine in WWII that was damaged and unable to dive while attacking a convoy. The British detached a DE which was involved in a multi-hour gun battle with the submarine which the destroyer almost lost. I'll try and look through my books to see if I can find the passage.

malkuth74 · 03-31-07, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFGood

I guess it would be theoretically possible thouh highly unlikely for a submarine to win a gun duel with a DE or Frigate. I remember reading somewhere about an Italian submarine in WWII that was damaged and unable to dive while attacking a convoy. The British detached a DE which was involved in a multi-hour gun battle with the submarine which the destroyer almost lost. I'll try and look through my books to see if I can find the passage.

It almost lost? The destroyers in game are Fubar you can look up the 1 or 2 exceptions IRL, but that does not mean it is the norm.

In SHIV the norm is 1vs1 you win vs a destroyer. (I even beat 2 on 1 before) And that is not the way it should be.

But it will be fixed I hope.

WFGood · 03-31-07, 06:38 PM

I would completely agree that the destroyers in game are nowhere near effective or as aggressive as they should be. I torpedoed one the other day and had its partner come to a stop allowing me to easily sink it. No self-respecting captain would ever hazard his ship in that manner. To my recollection it was the same when SH3 came out, but I don't think it was as bad. Memory, however, has a way of playing funny tricks. We went from one extreme to the other.
My point about the Italian submarine almost winning was that a lucky shot or even another shot in the right spot would have made it a completely different story. I was by no means stating that it is a normal or even sane situation to put yourself in, but that it was a theoretical possibility. Early in '42 there was a DD along with a CG cutter which were seriously damaged when merchantmen thought they were submarines and opened fire with their gun. Of course, the DD's did not return fire, but one of them was sent out of control by a hit and could not have effectively fought their ship.
Besides my comment about realism was directed to damage control, flight operations, and the fact that the man in the water was actually swimming when you watched him.

Cakewalk · 03-31-07, 09:25 PM

Destroyers are rather clueless at times; that being said, when I first got SH3 I was sinking destroyers by the dockload with my deck gun and rear tubes... I'd blow the guns off the destroyer as it went by, then when it turned around and started coming up my rear to ram me, I'd torp it.:rotfl:

That being said, its different now after damage remodeling in SH3... and I expect the same will hold true for SH4 eventually.

DiveMonkey · 03-31-07, 11:13 PM

You sure the downed pilot wasn't American?

Man!...that guy would be pissed!!!

WFGood · 03-31-07, 11:17 PM

DOH!! God I hope not! Imagine what a feeling that would be. Although that far from any friendly airbases or carriers early in '42 hopefully rules that out.

clayton · 03-31-07, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlegM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFGood

The other encounter was with a DD which surprised me out of the fog and ran me down. I managed to avoid being rammed dead center, but he did damage the after torpedo room severely, preventing me from diving. We shot it out on the surface. I was able to stay in close enough where he could not use his main battery to shoot at me, and I was able to finally sink him.

And you call this REALISTIC!?!? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Yea, about as realistic as having to go to periscope depth at 2 knots silent running, just to evade the escorts while you attack a convoy, all in 1939! SH3 :rotfl:

03-31-07, 03:40 PM	#1
WFGood Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: high above the big blue Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Some Impressive Realism I just finished a patrol to Honshu and the South China Seas, of which I have made several, but I encountered some pretty cool things during this patrol. At one point I came across 6 Zeros which seemed to be circling an area of ocean for no reason. Being curious I went in to investigate. When I got right into the middle of their circle, I found a downed airman swimming in the water. Not only were the planes circling to watch over the comrade, but he was actually swimming in the water! I was pretty amazed. I did not stick around to see the results, but it appeared that two ships were coming to rescue him. They were heading straight for him, and since they were Fubuki's and I was already damaged, I did not wait around to see what they were going to do. It was very realistic. It is exactly what pilots would do to ensure a fellow aviator was found after going down at sea. The other encounter was with a DD which surprised me out of the fog and ran me down. I managed to avoid being rammed dead center, but he did damage the after torpedo room severely, preventing me from diving. We shot it out on the surface. I was able to stay in close enough where he could not use his main battery to shoot at me, and I was able to finally sink him. What really amazed me was the fact that crewmen were actually falling down on deck as rounds impacted near them. It was really very immersive. As the ship finally sank there were still a couple lying on the deck spreadeagle as if they were trying to hold on as the stern rose. My hats off to the design team! Finally, I have to say that the damage model for the sub is much more realistic. I was able to repair the bulkhead, but it remained weakened and susceptible to damage for the rest of the patrol, as it would in real life. I am very impressed, and it makes it much more realistic. After being damaged, a captain must way the condition of his ship when planning an attack. A damaged boat can no longer just make repairs and dive to maximum depth as if nothing has happened. Minor annoyances aside, I have to say Bravo Zulu to the design team! Keep it up! __________________

03-31-07, 05:05 PM	#3
ElAurens A-ganger Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 76 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	In reality Japanese search and rescue was pretty much non-existant. __________________ " And the sea shall grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus

03-31-07, 05:33 PM	#6
StandingCow Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 355 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Yea, I noticed that Destroyers are not hard to outgun from the surface at all.. in fact in a multi player mission, after being very damaged I took one out with my deckgun.. and my buddy took out like.. 5 with his deck gun... __________________

03-31-07, 06:07 PM	#7
WFGood Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: high above the big blue Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I was referring more to the damage effects and the fact that the DD could not lower its guns and hit a target at close range. (Perhaps, I should have made that more clear.) I know of a case of an American submarine which survived ramming a maru, but have never come across the opposite. And no, the Japanese were not known for search and rescue efforts of individual pilots. They even left crews of sunken vessels in the water at times, but it does add to the flavor of the game immensely, but the way it was handled was exactly how allied fleets would have handled it. It would be interesting to see if the situation occurs in game with Allied aircraft. __________________

03-31-07, 06:16 PM	#9
WFGood Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: high above the big blue Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I guess it would be theoretically possible thouh highly unlikely for a submarine to win a gun duel with a DE or Frigate. I remember reading somewhere about an Italian submarine in WWII that was damaged and unable to dive while attacking a convoy. The British detached a DE which was involved in a multi-hour gun battle with the submarine which the destroyer almost lost. I'll try and look through my books to see if I can find the passage. __________________

03-31-07, 04:53 PM	#2
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I do wonder how realistic it was to execute and win a knife fight agaisnt a DD while sustaining damage to your aft section Nice going not being seen when you came up on the downed sailor, had you been seen, the realistic thing would have been calling in support to attack you. I wouldnt have been surprised if they'd have depth charged you with the downed pilot still in the water.

03-31-07, 05:18 PM	#4
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	you know, I figured that.

03-31-07, 06:38 PM	#11
WFGood Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: high above the big blue Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I would completely agree that the destroyers in game are nowhere near effective or as aggressive as they should be. I torpedoed one the other day and had its partner come to a stop allowing me to easily sink it. No self-respecting captain would ever hazard his ship in that manner. To my recollection it was the same when SH3 came out, but I don't think it was as bad. Memory, however, has a way of playing funny tricks. We went from one extreme to the other. My point about the Italian submarine almost winning was that a lucky shot or even another shot in the right spot would have made it a completely different story. I was by no means stating that it is a normal or even sane situation to put yourself in, but that it was a theoretical possibility. Early in '42 there was a DD along with a CG cutter which were seriously damaged when merchantmen thought they were submarines and opened fire with their gun. Of course, the DD's did not return fire, but one of them was sent out of control by a hit and could not have effectively fought their ship. Besides my comment about realism was directed to damage control, flight operations, and the fact that the man in the water was actually swimming when you watched him. __________________

03-31-07, 09:25 PM	#12
Cakewalk Engineer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 212 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Destroyers are rather clueless at times; that being said, when I first got SH3 I was sinking destroyers by the dockload with my deck gun and rear tubes... I'd blow the guns off the destroyer as it went by, then when it turned around and started coming up my rear to ram me, I'd torp it.:rotfl: That being said, its different now after damage remodeling in SH3... and I expect the same will hold true for SH4 eventually. __________________ Its not a bug... its a feature!

03-31-07, 11:13 PM	#13
DiveMonkey Torpedoman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 111 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You sure the downed pilot wasn't American? Man!...that guy would be pissed!!!

03-31-07, 11:17 PM	#14
WFGood Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: high above the big blue Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	DOH!! God I hope not! Imagine what a feeling that would be. Although that far from any friendly airbases or carriers early in '42 hopefully rules that out. __________________