America Less of a Democracy Every Day...

[ASWnut101]

First, let me get this straight.

Here is the definition of Democracy:

1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit. 5.the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

In essence, that means that the people have absolute control over thier government. Everything the government does is from what the people want. According to the Declaration of Independence:

Originally Posted by Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

...we can abolish an abusive form of government at any time if our personal security, liberty, and freedom rights were neglected in any form. Throughout the years (and I'm talking over the past 15 or so), our government has insated laws and regulations that restrict our freedoms, has very recently stopped listening to the voters (you and me, fellow Americans) in an attempt to expose a subjected theory that the 43rd president (GWB) had illegally fired members of the supreme court, which was never the voter's intentions or of their knowledge. We have a supreme-court that has pushed unconstatutional laws that directly affect the lives of the voters (again, you and me). We have had our government let an overpower (the United Nations) who attempts to push many unconstatutional laws, such as the Kyoto Protocol, which the people of the United States have absolutaly no control over. We have had lawyers who pushed laws and amendments that favor one group of people and disregard the rest.


As such, things THIS article show that senators and congressmen/women have overstepped their voter's wishes and opinions to pursue a theory pushed into the legal system by a congress that is not even half a year old.

This and This. The first, is a measure that will levee the economic freedom of buisnesses nationwide, breaking our rights yet again. The second was an unconstatutional attempt to limit the freedom of purchase, ownership, and usage of a weapon (something clearly defined in the Bill of Rights).

THIS. A total breach of personal rights defined by the government, specifically Amendment's II, IV, and IX. 100% Unlawful, with no imput from the people.


Recently, as I have shown, the Senators and Congress have gone on a political joy ride. Let me ask you this: Have any of you ever gone to a voting station to vote on these?

[elite_hunter_sh3]

asw america could still be a great country hell it could still be a superpower, but problem that brought/bringing ur country down.. is capitalism, lookat wut its done to china, now u got pissed off iranians and a army of 300 million chines solders with ak47s few hundred thousand tanks (100,000+) and a hell of a lot of nuclear capable weapons, best thing for america is revolution arm the citizens and depose of the whole government and redo everything following the constitiution like before.

hell my parents wanted to go to the states, but when they decided to move to new country they took canada, because of free education and health care, but now they want to go to states, but problems are plaguing them from moving such as terrorism issue, and the failing economy.

[August]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

asw america could still be a great country hell it could still be a superpower, but problem that brought/bringing ur country down.. is capitalism, lookat wut its done to china, now u got pissed off iranians and a army of 300 million chines solders with ak47s few hundred thousand tanks (100,000+) and a hell of a lot of nuclear capable weapons, best thing for america is revolution arm the citizens and depose of the whole government and redo everything following the constitiution like before.

hell my parents wanted to go to the states, but when they decided to move to new country they took canada, because of free education and health care, but now they want to go to states, but problems are plaguing them from moving such as terrorism issue, and the failing economy.

Please stay out of my country.

[Onkel Neal]

I blame it all on fast food.

[Enigma]

Nope, never voted on any of that. And that just scratches the surface, as im sure you know....

Rubberstamping: It's not just for politicians anymore. It's also for voters.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

...we can abolish an abusive form of government at any time if our personal security, liberty, and freedom rights were neglected in any form. Throughout the years (and I'm talking over the past 15 or so), our government has insated laws and regulations that restrict our freedoms, has very recently stopped listening to the voters (you and me, fellow Americans) in an attempt to expose a subjected theory that the 43rd president (GWB) had illegally fired members of the supreme court, which was never the voter's intentions or of their knowledge. We have a supreme-court that has pushed unconstatutional laws that directly affect the lives of the voters (again, you and me). We have had our government let an overpower (the United Nations) who attempts to push many unconstatutional laws, such as the Kyoto Protocol, which the people of the United States have absolutaly no control over. We have had lawyers who pushed laws and amendments that favor one group of people and disregard the rest.

Of course, in theory, politicians are to be held accountable for their actions in office at polling time. Sadly that's not how things work out. Federal voter turnout is pretty low in the US. Vote-buying patronage seems to be commonplace. And as Hitler said, "what luck for rulers that men don't think" - IMHO not many voters really seem to understand the gravity of these kinds of issues. I recently read Democracy in America which had other interesting critiques about the American system which you can look up if you want.

But what can be done? Should America do away with representative/liberal democracy and just have a referendum on every issue? That worked in the Greek polis, but America is 300 million strong.

I chuckled when Neal blamed the problem on "fast food" but I think there's a point there. Pardon me if this seems offensive in anyway, but look at the direction of American culture; on a given Tuesday night, about 30 million people are tuning into American Idol. That's one tenth of the population in one single hour parked in front of their TVs. A huge number. Nevermind all of the other trashy shows on that week, or those substituting scarfing down a Big Mac in the place of insightful dinner table discussion. There is no appreciation for what goes on outside the city limits unless it's got enormous cleavage or you can send a text message to it.

And this disillusionment with politics seems to perpetuate itself. As more people tune in to Maury instead of CNN/MSNBC/whatever, the more things officials can get away with, and the more reason to become ignorant of what seems to be an essentially futile and helpless situation.

I'm no expert but I would prescribe serious education to children about the importance of political involvement. Not just "blah blah blah we're the free-est country and democracy is great" but really hammer into their heads that if you don't use it, you will lose it.

EDIT: The news outlets themselves have some blame in this too. Every night I have got into bed to wind down and watch the news there has always, without fail, been some form of coverage of Anna Nicole Smith. No real news, just interviews with coroners etc. Kind of depressing.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

asw america could still be a great country hell it could still be a superpower, but problem that brought/bringing ur country down.. is capitalism, lookat wut its done to china, now u got pissed off iranians and a army of 300 million chines solders with ak47s few hundred thousand tanks (100,000+) and a hell of a lot of nuclear capable weapons, best thing for america is revolution arm the citizens and depose of the whole government and redo everything following the constitiution like before.

hell my parents wanted to go to the states, but when they decided to move to new country they took canada, because of free education and health care, but now they want to go to states, but problems are plaguing them from moving such as terrorism issue, and the failing economy.

???

[elite_hunter_sh3]

pretty simple america would be in a huge surplus in money flow if bush and clinton never went into power, and with a surplus comes better education and health care for the class that cant afford it, even thou ur university system is 1. in the world , only reason why im so anti american is because of bush and clinton, i want them out of power and either in jail or worse. i admit i dont live in te states, but all that i know if the public dont do something soon america will not be as influential and persuasive as they have been for te last 65-75 yrs, if america does change its path and fixes the problems created by bush and clinton then, id probably live there, im heading into space engineering as a career so im either looking into canadian space agency, nasa or whatever agency relates to space and space travel.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

In essence, that means that the people have absolute control over thier government. Everything the government does is from what the people want.

...we can abolish an abusive form of government at any time if our personal security, liberty, and freedom rights were neglected in any form. Throughout the years (and I'm talking over the past 15 or so), our government has insated laws and regulations that restrict our freedoms

The government is perfectly right to restrict your freedoms, examples including your freedom to drink and drive, your freedom to steal, and many others. What freedoms are restricted, and how, is where politics and government happen.

... has very recently stopped listening to the voters (you and me, fellow Americans) in an attempt to expose a subjected theory that the 43rd president (GWB) had illegally fired members of the supreme court, which was never the voter's intentions or of their knowledge.

Who's being fired from the Supreme Court? This is news to me. If you mean the current mess involving the fired US attorneys, get your facts right.
What does the "voters intentions or knowledge" mean in this context? From past experience, voter knowledge counts for f*ck-all, as fatty pointed out.
The ordinary voter is not nearly knowledgeable enough about big issues to make informed decisions. The United States is a republic before a democracy; you don't make the decisions, you decide who makes them for you.
Do you know enough about macroeconomics to make informed decisions on the national budget? I sure don't. Let's leave it to someone who does. What about stem cell research? Running the Heath Service? Armed forces? The same thing goes for the Supreme Court. The voters can show their preference in selecting the man who selects, the President. After that, after the vote, they're just lobbyists.
The intentions of the voters don't matter either, one of the wonderful things about democracy is that only the vote counts, not the reasons for it.

We have a supreme-court that has pushed unconstatutional laws that directly affect the lives of the voters (again, you and me). We have had our government let an overpower (the United Nations) who attempts to push many unconstatutional laws, such as the Kyoto Protocol, which the people of the United States have absolutaly no control over. We have had lawyers who pushed laws and amendments that favor one group of people and disregard the rest.

Lawyers are supposed to opush for the best interests of their clients, it's the essence of an adversarial justice system. Lobbyists are also obliged to do all they can for their bankrollers. Sadly, most policy-makers are too susceptible to intensive lobbying, for less than noble reasons.

As such, things THIS article show that senators and congressmen/women have overstepped their voter's wishes and opinions to pursue a theory pushed into the legal system by a congress that is not even half a year old.

What do mean with these wishes/opinions? What do they count for? One man, one vote. Everything after that is undue influence. I doubt the voters would prefer to see baseless politically-motivated dismissals, and lies about such dismissals, to a hard-working group of attorneys doing their job. Now, not all of that previous sentence has been proven, but whats the harm in questioning?
If wrongdoing is suspected to have been committed in law enforcement, isnt it the duty of the Congress to investigate it, no matter how old the current congress is?
If the voters find their wishes/opinions not in line with the goings-on in Washington, then rejoice, because reoresentative democracy is working.

Recently, as I have shown, the Senators and Congress have gone on a political joy ride. Let me ask you this: Have any of you ever gone to a voting station to vote on these?

Again, you don't vote on the issues, you vote on who votes on the issues. Thats the difference between democracy and representative democracy. The United States is not a pure democracy, it's a constitutional republic.

Political joy-ride? They're politicians! Thats not a loaded word here, it's their job description. Elected by the people to assist running the country in the best way they see fit. That's the theory

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by fatty

I chuckled when Neal blamed the problem on "fast food" but I think there's a point there. Pardon me if this seems offensive in anyway, but look at the direction of American culture; on a given Tuesday night, about 30 million people are tuning into American Idol. That's one tenth of the population in one single hour parked in front of their TVs. A huge number. Nevermind all of the other trashy shows on that week, or those substituting scarfing down a Big Mac in the place of insightful dinner table discussion. There is no appreciation for what goes on outside the city limits unless it's got enormous cleavage or you can send a text message to it.

I fully agree. America has dumbed down tremendously. That's not to say that other countries haven't just as well but America in a leadership position cannot afford to more than many others.

And freedom's enemies are laughing.

[joea]

Originally Posted by August

Please stay out of my country.

I think he forgets Canada is indeed a capitalist economy, and we are very linked and dependent on the US for our prosperity (goes the other way too) and let's face it, Hummers are capitalist militarist products. :rotfl:

[joea]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

pretty simple america would be in a huge surplus in money flow if bush and clinton never went into power, and with a surplus comes better education and health care for the class that cant afford it, even thou ur university system is 1. in the world , only reason why im so anti american is because of bush and clinton, i want them out of power and either in jail or worse. i admit i dont live in te states, but all that i know if the public dont do something soon america will not be as influential and persuasive as they have been for te last 65-75 yrs, if america does change its path and fixes the problems created by bush and clinton then, id probably live there, im heading into space engineering as a career so im either looking into canadian space agency, nasa or whatever agency relates to space and space travel.

I agree that things went downhill with Clinton, and Bush made some big mistakes too...I think you have a cool dream working for the space program! It might give us some hope.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

who knows, by the looks of it if university goes well i might be down at nasa making the mars rover for the mars landing crew, and since canada is so dependent on the US, why do u think theres soaring gas prices even worse here, inflation, everything is more expensive, i say we should cut off our precvios softwood lumber, and our freshwater from the us if they keep screweing canada over with their nafta, and their beef bans... stupid farmers

and yes i LIKE my DADs hummer, but I like my 1991 Honda CBR 250rr , 250cc import from japan, 3.5 liters of gas for every 100km, 65hp top speed of 220kmh, and i redlines from 18,000-20,000 rpm, formula one sounded motorcycle anyone??

[bradclark1]

pretty simple america would be in a huge surplus in money flow if bush and clinton never went into power

Clinton had a 230 billion dollar surplus. Don't you ever attempt to check your information or do you just spout what you think sounds good?

Since its upto the Congress to raise and allocate money neither Clinton nor Bush, nor any other president is responsible for any surplus or deficet.

I point you to Article One, Sections seven and eight of the US Constitution.