The term "Japs"

[IRONxMortlock]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

Yes, it is offensive.

[Loaf]

Regarding the comments made by TheSatyr:

I have been hanging around the Battlefront.com forums for years (more of a lurker than a poster), and while the folks there are fantastically knowledgeable about WWII history they are also prone to having giant pissing matches...

There have been numerous threads about the use of swastikas in games that degenerated into political arguments complete with name-calling - heck, I have seen several threads where debates over the relative merits of German vs. Allied tanks wound up as insult-fests. Having said that, part of the culture at Battlefront.com is to debate issues in a somewhat belligerent manner, so if you hang around there that's what you get... It can be fun at times.

I would say that overall this forum (although less serious in tone) has way less stupid fights and dumbass behaviour than Battlefront.com. As a long-time member of both forums I thought I would chuck in my $0.02...

[timmyg00]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Point taken. I never even thought of that. Consider them gone.

You're a good man... probably better than me

TG

[timmyg00]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Are you sure?

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Nuff said...

BUSTED

I wish people who say they're "leaving" the forum would just leave and shut up about it, instead of trying to grab their last bit of holier-than-thou, you-guys-suck glory before they go, or acting as if people were going to apologize and beg them to stay. Don't let the hatch hit you in the a$$ on the way out, mate.

TG

[Mush Martin]

the correct name for the enemy should be "the enemy"
it wont matter which side your on
everyone will know who your talking about.


Just for the record it is innefficient to hate your enemy
however its good to make them angry upset and off balance.
MM

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

Yes, it is offensive.

Fair enough, I won't use it.

[THE_MASK]

Some poeple would be horrified to know that on australian anzac day , the national tv broadcaster shows old news reel footages . One i remember from a couple of years ago was a life boet filled with Japanese and the footage from the plane as he strafes them and the commentary went something like " those nips will cop it now "

[nattydread]

Originally Posted by timmyg00

"Japs" is just the shortened form of "Japanese". It's like a nickname.

Likewise, "Nips" is the short form of "Nipponese" (Nippon = Japan) ... ditto.

Were I a German citizen, I might find "Krauts" annoying, since it stereotypes Germans as sauerkraut eaters, which is silly. However, I don't think I'd find it to be particularly bigoted. But... I'm not a German citizen, so I really don't have a frame of reference for an informed opinion.

There are far worse epithets that could be, and have been, used to describe any given racial or ethnic group. I think shortened forms of acceptable terms are, by extension, also acceptable (As a citizen of the U.S., I reference the term "Yanks", as our British friends call us... hardly an offensive term...)

TG

Ok, lets be real, Americans didnt call them Japs and Nips because they liked them, knew them, identified with them, grew up with them on the block, had slumber parties with them on weekends or respected them. They called them these names at a time when we were at war with, while upset, while feeling violated, while wanting to kill them and on some level desiring to exterminate them as people. It was a name that grew in hostile times, with hostile thoughts, fears and a general air of racial tension and public acceptance for racist attitudes.
The Japanese wouldnt have accepted these "nickname" from us anymore than you'd accept the nickname given to you by some one you deem hostile or that you have conflict with. You'd never freely accept the nickname gievn you by a bully or someone you hated. When your at each other's throats and trying to kill the other, no name you come up with for the other will have any friendly, nice or good intentions behind it. Its a slur, plain and simple. The only difference is the name hasnt been challenged or question on any large social level. But then again, being called a ****** didnt either until about a couple of generations ago, it didnt mean African-Americans didnt like being called that until the '60s(yes, Im Black).
I assure you when my Viet-Nam vet father uses the term "Gook", that it has no good intentions behind it, its laced with pain, hurt and anger. Jap and Nip carried the same.
Im not going to tell you not to use it, that argument will take too much energy and generally its wasted breath on those who have yet to understand and crasp on a larger social level why it shouldnt be used. But lets not fool ourselves, if your going to enjoy its use, be real. Accept it for what it is, and accept your contribution and participation in it.

No hard feelings on my part(and hopefully none on yours), I've said my piece, its added into the conversation, you weigh its merit just like everyone elses comments. I will say that it may be a bit easier for me to identify, and perhaps easy for me to make more of it also, because Im a minority...been there, done that.


p.s. please dont lock the thread or be scared to further discuss the matter on my part. Its a reasonable discussion topic.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by nattydread

Ok, lets be real, Americans didnt call them Japs and Nips because they liked them, knew them, identified with them, grew up with them on the block, had slumber parties with them on weekends or respected them. They called them these names at a time when we were at war with, while upset, while feeling violated, while wanting to kill them and on some level desiring to exterminate them as people. It was a name that grew in hostile times, with hostile thoughts, fears and a general air of racial tension and public acceptance for racist attitudes.
The Japanese wouldnt have accepted these "nickname" from us anymore than you'd accept the nickname given to you by some one you deem hostile or that you have conflict with. You'd never freely accept the nickname gievn you by a bully or someone you hated. When your at each other's throats and trying to kill the other, no name you come up with for the other will have any friendly, nice or good intentions behind it. Its a slur, plain and simple. The only difference is the name hasnt been challenged or question on any large social level. But then again, being called a ****** didnt either until about a couple of generations ago, it didnt mean African-Americans didnt like being called that until the '60s(yes, Im Black).
I assure you when my Viet-Nam vet father uses the term "Gook", that it has no good intentions behind it, its laced with pain, hurt and anger. Jap and Nip carried the same.
Im not going to tell you not to use it, that argument will take too much energy and generally its wasted breath on those who have yet to understand and crasp on a larger social level why it shouldnt be used. But lets not fool ourselves, if your going to enjoy its use, be real. Accept it for what it is, and accept your contribution and participation in it.

No hard feelings on my part(and hopefully none on yours), I've said my piece, its added into the conversation, you weigh its merit just like everyone elses comments. I will say that it may be a bit easier for me to identify, and perhaps easy for me to make more of it also, because Im a minority...been there, done that.


p.s. please dont lock the thread or be scared to further discuss the matter on my part. Its a reasonable discussion topic.

Well said, Natty. These type of terms were used in times of hate and intolerance. We can do without them.

I want Japanese subsim players to feel welcome here, same with all people. I think the main thing to keep in mind, we here in this forum, are from all over the world. It's more important to extend a hand of friendship than the hate-shaking fist.

Neal

[Immacolata]

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

And

Political Correctness


How I hate people who are 'politcal correct'!:p:rotfl:

I just like people that behave well.

[zaza]

I haven't read yet all of thread where posted here.


I can say as subsim member ,that people of here
doesn't use Jap for offense words.Just easy to write.
Yes I know I don't matter now.

But if I see words "Jap " as a non registered General Japanese,
a little bit sad and feel what a non educational peoples are in here !


Here is international famous forum.
And many nations coming here.
So I want know to all of here,
Not all of but some of Japanese doen' t feel good
if see the word "JAP" .



Hmmm hard to discuss this matter in English....

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by zaza

Hmmm hard to discuss this matter in English....

Thanks for weighing your opinion into the discussion, zaza. You got your point across perfectly. Your English excellent, and a lot better than my Japanese. I respect the fact that many Japanese people and some community members here find it disparaging, thus I won't use it, even under the guise of it being contextually accurate in the historical era covered by SH4.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by timmyg00

BUSTED

I wish people who say they're "leaving" the forum would just leave and shut up about it, instead of trying to grab their last bit of holier-than-thou, you-guys-suck glory before they go, or acting as if people were going to apologize and beg them to stay. Don't let the hatch hit you in the a$$ on the way out, mate.

TG

As they say on many messageboards throughout the internet.....


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[geetrue]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Hmm... Yes, but it's still a swastika, same simbol, as these are all just crosses:

My cross stands for forgiveness ...

[sunvalleyslim]

Nattydread,
Well stated and accurate........words are words.....and some can be offended by such, even if no foul intended.......