Mixed bag of questions

Poor Old Spike · 12-31-06, 04:51 AM

Hi, I've had DW for a while and like building my own missions.
Call me thick but there are still a couple of things I haven't yet figgered out and would welcome advice -
1 - With Truth 'off' we get wireframe unidentified ships, I can understand that because it represents only the 'best guess' by friendly forces of what ship type it is, but what I can't understand is why it STAYS a wireframe even if I fly my helo low and slow over it? You'd think the pilot would radio his ship to say "It's a type so-and-so", causing the wire to vanish and be replaced by a solid 3D vessel..

2 - Do Seawolf missiles engage helos? I flew my helo directly at and over a Seawolf-armed frigate, but it only fired its gun at the helo rather than the missiles,missing a lot and only shooting it down when it closed to half-a-mile or so..

3 - CIWS's can be set to fire auto which is great, but can SAMS auto-fire too?
Or do we have to manually target our SM-2's individually against incoming anti-ship missiles? By the time we've selected the exact incomer and issued the fire order, it could be almost on us..
Surely in real-life, SAM fire is much more automated?

4 - When we fire Harpoons at an enemy vessel, is there any way to fire them in a 'rapid-fire' mode a second apart (or preferably simultaneously) so that the enemy defensive systems will hopefully be swamped by all 4 Harpoons arriving together?
As far as I can tell in the game, Harpoons can only be made to fly at intervals of about 10 seconds no matter how quick we are with issuing orders via frantic mouse clicking, and as a result the enemy has plenty of time to shoot them down one by one..
Thanks

Sea Demon · 12-31-06, 05:19 AM

Hi Spike,

1. You have to make the determination what type of platform it is. I'm not sure if there's any way around this. But if the target is radiating, your helo will be able to narrow it down based upon what type of radar is hitting your helo. I understand it may be helpful if we could assume that your simulated helo pilot's eyeballs would just give you the info you need without any analysis on your part. I'll have to take another look.

2. Again, I would think that any Frigate with a missile system would take you out at longer range with missiles, and with guns at shorter range. I do know that a Sovremenny's SA-N-7 missile targeted and destroyed one of my helos. Maybe they detected you at short range and fired the gun when you got right over them. You may want to do further testing.

3. There's no way to automate your SAM fire in the Frigate. You have to do the work, or you can direct the action from the NAV Map. But there is no way to set up your ship to do this like the CIWS. In real life, SAM fire control is automated on Arleigh Burkes and Ticonderoga's. Probably other ships as well. But in the Frigate, this is just not an option. At any rate, you can only control two missiles anyway. One with the STIR. One with the CAS.

4. There is no way to simultaneously fire all your Harpoons or rapid fire them. Once you load them, it takes 27 seconds to load and prep your Harpoon to fire. You can make all your Harpoons reach the target at approximately the same time using the Harpoon PLAN feature. Use the single waypoint on each missiles PLAN to create a slightly longer time of flight to the target. Coming in at slightly different angles, you will get the desired "time on target" effect that you seek.

Dr.Sid · 12-31-06, 06:28 AM

1) Helos sends it's contacts to the link. Use 'show link' at nav map. Link is layer of contacts detected by friendly platforms. Helo usually don't detect friend or foe and marks everything as neutral (it should mark it as unknown). But the class and type is marked correctly.

2) AI frigates shoots at helos all the time.

3) SAM can't be automated in DW. It's good idea to have airborne helo nearby and watch the link. Helos marks incoming missiles much sooner then FFG can detect.

4) 10 seconds is about that time limit. It can't be shot faster. But consider this: you want missiles to attack the ship at the same time. Not to launch them at the same time. Use different plans for each missile. Let the first missile have slightly longer path. Also try to approach the target from different directions. Also note that missile is much more detectable when enabled, so enable it as late as possible.
FFG is anti-sub weapon anyway. Harpoons are there mostly for defense.

kage · 12-31-06, 11:05 PM

1 - As mentioned, this does happen, but only through the link, and a player can turn off the link data.

2 - It's quite possible for a missile to be tagged as capable of targeting missiles, without having the same capability versus heloes, or for that matter planes.

3 - I don't think it's more automated IRL, but there are people whose job description might be waiting to press the fire buttons. How much warning you have against an incoming missile is always a crucial question.
(Remember missile interception is not your only defense against incoming vampires)

4 - Look up my FFG guide, which has that. Don't know where it can be found now though. There is a version at subguru's, I think, but it may be an old version with some incorrect data.

Essentially:
-Find how long it travels per second (3 minute rule)
-Multiply how long it takes between firing each missile
-Make paths that are exactly that much different, but still end up on the target
-Fire one missile down each path, every that many seconds.

If you can make them enable AND impact at the same time, great! (Tip: They don't shutdown at the shutdown point.)

Poor Old Spike · 12-31-06, 11:31 PM

Thanks for your feedback guys, it seems some things about DW are realistic, while others are less so..
From what you say, I gather that if I detect a hostile vessel and want to hit it simultaneously with 4 Harpoons, I have to lay in course plots for each bird individually by dragging the paddle around in order to give the early flyers a longer path so they'll hit at the same time as the later more direct-route later flyers..
It all makes perfect sense of course, but by the time I've done all that with the help of a sliderule to compute flight times, the enemy ship may well have fired first and sent me to the bottom!
My guess is that in real life, the Harpoon guy would simply feed the co-ordinates and flight paths into the launch system by a single click on the enemy blip on his radar screen, then hit "Fire All" and sit back with his feet up as the 4 birds auto-launch..

Sea Demon · 01-01-07, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike

Thanks for your feedback guys, it seems some things about DW are realistic, while others are less so..
From what you say, I gather that if I detect a hostile vessel and want to hit it simultaneously with 4 Harpoons, I have to lay in course plots for each bird individually by dragging the paddle around in order to give the early flyers a longer path so they'll hit at the same time as the later more direct-route later flyers..
It all makes perfect sense of course, but by the time I've done all that with the help of a sliderule to compute flight times, the enemy ship may well have fired first and sent me to the bottom!
My guess is that in real life, the Harpoon guy would simply feed the co-ordinates and flight paths into the launch system by a single click on the enemy blip on his radar screen, then hit "Fire All" and sit back with his feet up as the 4 birds auto-launch..

The way I look at it, the FFG is limited in the AAW and ASuW role. It can do both but has it's limitations. The FFG's true strength is it's ability to conduct the ASW mission. When I play the FFG, I like to have an Arleigh Burke or a Ticonderoga with me. Together, we can conquer the world. They are the heavy hitters in these areas. You can merely be a good support role to them in AAW and ASuW roles.

*sigh* Oh how I would love an Arleigh Burke add-on. I know, I know.....Shut-up Sea Demon!

Poor Old Spike · 01-01-07, 02:06 AM

Incidentally I've been playing PC naval sims (the Harpoon series) for many years but eventually gave up on them because there were more bugs in them than fleas on a hound dawgs back, more's the pity..
I liked Fleet Command but its too simplistic..
I've had DW for about a year and am still trying to decide if I like it or not, I'm slowly wading through the play manual and actually successfully fired a torpedo and hit a tanker the other day so I'm getting there.
At the moment I'm trying to figger out how to make my helo land and rescue personnel in one of the missions; I fly it to the pickup point but it just hovers without landing..

12-31-06, 04:51 AM	#1
Poor Old Spike Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Mixed bag of questions Hi, I've had DW for a while and like building my own missions. Call me thick but there are still a couple of things I haven't yet figgered out and would welcome advice - 1 - With Truth 'off' we get wireframe unidentified ships, I can understand that because it represents only the 'best guess' by friendly forces of what ship type it is, but what I can't understand is why it STAYS a wireframe even if I fly my helo low and slow over it? You'd think the pilot would radio his ship to say "It's a type so-and-so", causing the wire to vanish and be replaced by a solid 3D vessel.. 2 - Do Seawolf missiles engage helos? I flew my helo directly at and over a Seawolf-armed frigate, but it only fired its gun at the helo rather than the missiles,missing a lot and only shooting it down when it closed to half-a-mile or so.. 3 - CIWS's can be set to fire auto which is great, but can SAMS auto-fire too? Or do we have to manually target our SM-2's individually against incoming anti-ship missiles? By the time we've selected the exact incomer and issued the fire order, it could be almost on us.. Surely in real-life, SAM fire is much more automated? 4 - When we fire Harpoons at an enemy vessel, is there any way to fire them in a 'rapid-fire' mode a second apart (or preferably simultaneously) so that the enemy defensive systems will hopefully be swamped by all 4 Harpoons arriving together? As far as I can tell in the game, Harpoons can only be made to fly at intervals of about 10 seconds no matter how quick we are with issuing orders via frantic mouse clicking, and as a result the enemy has plenty of time to shoot them down one by one.. Thanks

12-31-06, 11:05 PM	#4
kage Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 104 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	1 - As mentioned, this does happen, but only through the link, and a player can turn off the link data. 2 - It's quite possible for a missile to be tagged as capable of targeting missiles, without having the same capability versus heloes, or for that matter planes. 3 - I don't think it's more automated IRL, but there are people whose job description might be waiting to press the fire buttons. How much warning you have against an incoming missile is always a crucial question. (Remember missile interception is not your only defense against incoming vampires) 4 - Look up my FFG guide, which has that. Don't know where it can be found now though. There is a version at subguru's, I think, but it may be an old version with some incorrect data. Essentially: -Find how long it travels per second (3 minute rule) -Multiply how long it takes between firing each missile -Make paths that are exactly that much different, but still end up on the target -Fire one missile down each path, every that many seconds. If you can make them enable AND impact at the same time, great! (Tip: They don't shutdown at the shutdown point.) __________________ http://www.xfire.com/clans/dwobjective/ for those who like playing objectives-based missions. (As opposed to deathmatches)

12-31-06, 05:19 AM	#2
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Hi Spike, 1. You have to make the determination what type of platform it is. I'm not sure if there's any way around this. But if the target is radiating, your helo will be able to narrow it down based upon what type of radar is hitting your helo. I understand it may be helpful if we could assume that your simulated helo pilot's eyeballs would just give you the info you need without any analysis on your part. I'll have to take another look. 2. Again, I would think that any Frigate with a missile system would take you out at longer range with missiles, and with guns at shorter range. I do know that a Sovremenny's SA-N-7 missile targeted and destroyed one of my helos. Maybe they detected you at short range and fired the gun when you got right over them. You may want to do further testing. 3. There's no way to automate your SAM fire in the Frigate. You have to do the work, or you can direct the action from the NAV Map. But there is no way to set up your ship to do this like the CIWS. In real life, SAM fire control is automated on Arleigh Burkes and Ticonderoga's. Probably other ships as well. But in the Frigate, this is just not an option. At any rate, you can only control two missiles anyway. One with the STIR. One with the CAS. 4. There is no way to simultaneously fire all your Harpoons or rapid fire them. Once you load them, it takes 27 seconds to load and prep your Harpoon to fire. You can make all your Harpoons reach the target at approximately the same time using the Harpoon PLAN feature. Use the single waypoint on each missiles PLAN to create a slightly longer time of flight to the target. Coming in at slightly different angles, you will get the desired "time on target" effect that you seek.

12-31-06, 06:28 AM	#3
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	1) Helos sends it's contacts to the link. Use 'show link' at nav map. Link is layer of contacts detected by friendly platforms. Helo usually don't detect friend or foe and marks everything as neutral (it should mark it as unknown). But the class and type is marked correctly. 2) AI frigates shoots at helos all the time. 3) SAM can't be automated in DW. It's good idea to have airborne helo nearby and watch the link. Helos marks incoming missiles much sooner then FFG can detect. 4) 10 seconds is about that time limit. It can't be shot faster. But consider this: you want missiles to attack the ship at the same time. Not to launch them at the same time. Use different plans for each missile. Let the first missile have slightly longer path. Also try to approach the target from different directions. Also note that missile is much more detectable when enabled, so enable it as late as possible. FFG is anti-sub weapon anyway. Harpoons are there mostly for defense.

12-31-06, 11:31 PM	#5
Poor Old Spike Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks for your feedback guys, it seems some things about DW are realistic, while others are less so.. From what you say, I gather that if I detect a hostile vessel and want to hit it simultaneously with 4 Harpoons, I have to lay in course plots for each bird individually by dragging the paddle around in order to give the early flyers a longer path so they'll hit at the same time as the later more direct-route later flyers.. It all makes perfect sense of course, but by the time I've done all that with the help of a sliderule to compute flight times, the enemy ship may well have fired first and sent me to the bottom! My guess is that in real life, the Harpoon guy would simply feed the co-ordinates and flight paths into the launch system *by a single click on the enemy blip* on his radar screen, then hit "Fire All" and sit back with his feet up as the 4 birds auto-launch..

01-01-07, 02:06 AM	#7
Poor Old Spike Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Incidentally I've been playing PC naval sims (the Harpoon series) for many years but eventually gave up on them because there were more bugs in them than fleas on a hound dawgs back, more's the pity.. I liked Fleet Command but its too simplistic.. I've had DW for about a year and am still trying to decide if I like it or not, I'm slowly wading through the play manual and actually successfully fired a torpedo and hit a tanker the other day so I'm getting there. At the moment I'm trying to figger out how to make my helo land and rescue personnel in one of the missions; I fly it to the pickup point but it just hovers without landing..