Possible Workaround for the GPS navigation in SH 3

[dertien]

Hello Everyone,

I've recently been playing SH3 again with GWX coming out, and am quite pleased of the nice work they have all put in this release. Superb.

I was somehow hoping someone would have come up with a 'sextant' mod, but I read some threads on that now, and I' m pretty convinced that it's not possible to mod it in SH3.

But another aspect is this : WHY would you even bother doing the celestial nav yourself. You play the captain not the entire crew now, right ?



The only thing that troubles me is that this uebernavigator seems to get his navigational data from a satelite instead from his sextant instrument. So, as a non modder I ask myself this.

Is it possible in SH3 to:

a) Get rid of the constant u-boat marker on the navmap, but only have an update once in a while on the map, or add a button to the navigator's panel to ask him for a position estimate.
b) Have your navigator make navigation errors deliberately depending on weathercondition, wave state, cloud cover, and getting rid of the GPS like navigation (open seas only)?

Since Tikigod has been working a lot on this matter, the first reaction could be his.

reactions please ?

[Venatore]

Something like......hey navigator were are we (this would be a little information box like in the intergrated orders) once you click on that it brings up the map and shows your postion.....oh lets say for about 2-5 minutes, then the U-Boat symbol goes kaput ! :hmm:

[JohnnyBlaze]

You might be interested of reading this topic
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937

I've been using this method for a long while now and not going back to normal

[vanjast]

Here we go... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102686.

I've also had this in mind for some time. I've finally put the minor details (geomaps, starmaps, celestial info, educational stuff) together and am busy working on the 'sextant'.
Probably the most important aspect is the educational 'guff'. If our Kaleuns are not educated, they cannot navigate. And of course, They must be sold on this idea.

[The Noob]

Kaleun n00b has taken bernard off the navigation station and trys to navigate manually...

"Okay, so this must be Brest if im right..."

Some time later...

"OMFG There are russian ships everyware we are getting pwned ARRG!"

*SH3 Death Screen*

No thanks, i'll stick with GPS. :p

[dertien]

So far, so good, I've tried the method appointed by JohnnyBlaze, and I am very pleased with the result.

went down to grid location BF17 to sink some ships with the manual TDC control as well, so I'm getting as real as it gets with SH3.

The immersion is total , I depart from Kiel, and let the 'GPS' do the navigation through the canal. Once I exit it, I switch to manual nav using the ctrl-mouse method as depicted in the movies of Dantenoc's.

It adds enormous realism to the patrol, especially if you're in a storm and havent had the chance to do a sextant positioning.

On the way back I sail past Helgoland and to the ingress point of the canal. There I let GPS take over again.

This method appeals to me, I would love to try out the sextant thing some modders are working on, and will include it in SH3, but the ctrl-click method is realistic enough for me.

Thanks to you all for the info. Now all there is left to do is to make a rangescale/protractor/compass hybrid tool that you can drag onto the map like the
charts to calculate knots vs distance/hour, and we can keep wazoo's method of speed recognition.

Where's my photoshop???

Gute Jagd und fette Beute

[_Seth_]

Is the SHIII map accurate enough to navigate underwater (with stopwatch and speed& range calculations)? I mean: can i plot the course on a RL map, and then sail the submerged route by excact calculations?

[dertien]

Originally Posted by _Seth_

Is the SHIII map accurate enough to navigate underwater (with stopwatch and speed& range calculations)? I mean: can i plot the course on a RL map, and then sail the submerged route by excact calculations?

Hello Seth,

what did you have in mind ?

The problem with adding things to the SH3 map is that, it sucks up computing ressources if you zoom in to the extreme levels. This means, that you can only have a few markers and lines and scribbles on your map before you start to have a stutter effect when you zoom in to the max. Having a real map, where you could actually plot your patrol on and never open the SH3 map so to speak would be grand.

The stutter effect may be due to the fact that my PC is not up to SH3 standards, but nevertheless.

specs:

OS: A tuned Microsoft Vista
SH3 running GWX and some enhancements (periscope degree by degree scale and a few others, just realism enhancements not eye candy)
Particles density in options set to 45

Hardware:

Geforce 6600 SLI 256 MB
Athlon 3200
Ram 500 Megs (this is somewhat low, but doesn't seem to bother during gameplay, only loading times can be up to 5-7 minutes. Time to put on a cuppa.

If you mean using Wazoo' s method of speed calculation, using the stopwatch and the protractor drawing tools, it is VERY accurate. It takes some practice, time and common sense, but once you've got the routine, you can sink almost anything, that your torpedoes or yourself can catch up with. You can do that on your RL map or a noteblock as well.
Sometimes, you get a 'funkmeldung' about an enemy convoy and you can spare yourself the trouble of the calculation.

But I repeat my question, what did you have in mind ?

[dertien]

Ah one thing,

I haven't tried to navigate without TC, It is very accurate as long as you're not going to do a 250 Mile trip underwater. I think you might miss the target by a few tens of meters. This is because your helmsman is the worst in Kriegsmarine history, and he tends to 'let go' off the helm and put you a few degrees off course. However, I am not sure if this happens without time compression. For underwater navigation, it should be pretty accurate, but why do you need the seconds, aren't hours and minutes accrate enough to bear down on a location?

keep me posted

[_Seth_]

Originally Posted by dertien

Hello Seth,

what did you have in mind ?

The problem with adding things to the SH3 map is that, it sucks up computing ressources if you zoom in to the extreme levels. This means, that you can only have a few markers and lines and scribbles on your map before you start to have a stutter effect.

This my be due to the fact that my PC is not up to SH3 standards, but nevertheless.

specs:

OS: A tuned Microsoft Vista
SH3 running GWX and some enhancements (periscope degree by degree scale and a few others, just realism enhancements not eye candy)
Particles density in options set to 45

Hardware:

Geforce 6600 SLI 256 MB
Athlon 3200
Ram 500 Megs (this is somewhat low, but doesn't seem to bother during gameplay, only loading times can be up to 5-7 minutes. Time to put on a cuppa.

If you mean using Wazoo' s method of speed calculation, using the stopwatch and the protractor drawing tools, it is VERY accurate. It takes some practice, time and common sense, but once you've got the routine, you can sink almost anything, that your torpedoes or yourself can catch up with.
Sometimes, you get a 'funkmeldung' about an enemy convoy and you can spare yourself the trouble of the calculation.

But I repeat my question, what did you have in mind ?

Im sorry if i was unclear, mate..I was thinking about navigating "off-game", and then to use those calculations in SHIII. I have now anchored up my u-boat in a little fjord outside Trondheim. My goal is to navigate out to sea underwater, only using the stopwatch.I have calculated range and bearing on the map, and noted this down in a book i use for such purposes. I have calculated a underwater speed of 10 kts, with snorkel up.

This is my calculations:

Leg 1: 056 degrees -- 8,0 km @10 Kts.
ETA Leg 2 in 25 minutes 55 seconds

TURN LEG 2

Leg 2: 044 degrees -- 10 km @10 Kts.
ETA Leg 3 in 32 minutes and 23 seconds

TURN LEG 3

Leg 3: 052 degrees -- 6,5 km @ 10 Kts.
ETA Leg 4 in 21 minutes and 03 seconds

TURN LEG 4

Leg 4: 328 degrees -- 4,0 km @ 10 kts.
ETA Leg 4 in 12 minutes and 57 seconds

TURN LEG 5

Leg 5: 000 degrees -- 3,0 km @ 10 kts.
ETA End of leg 9 minutes and 43 seconds


______________________________________________

Does this seem right..?

[dertien]

ahaaa, that's your plan, looks like a realism addon . Sneaking past the brits out of the harbour to have a nice glass of schnapps, ja ?

Well, I think that in stock SH3 this is more than possible and actually feasible.

GWX looking in above water situations (if you have read the manual) is a totally different ballgame. In a nutshell, your U-boat's overall 'lage' is not only subject to your sleepy helmsman, but will differ also on weather conditions. So, above water going through a storm, it will eat away a knot or two on your speed instead of doing the same run on a sunny day. Dunno if this is actually changing in relation to how deep you are. Even in choppy seas, if you're like 5-7 meters underwater, you are motionless. I' m a diver and I have hands on experience with that.

I dunno about underwater behavior of GWX, I should test it and let you know. Are u running GWX ? , then I can't answer your question (yet) for underwater matters.

Do you have an exact screenshot position for your uboat, as well as your initial bearing, or is there a way to import Lat/Long data onto the SH3 map ?

But if you're running by the second, you're LI, better not be deaf!

[_Seth_]

The sea is calm, and i im 13 minutes into the first leg. I willl post the results when i have reached the end. I agree on the wave factors, they make it more difficult to estimate an accurate ETA. About underwater, i hope to discover something now. I cant give you screens, that would be cheating..:rotfl: I only use the control room view and a stopwatch.
BTW:I was just wondering if my speed & time calculations was correct.. If they arent, my crew will hit the Norwegian coast pretty hard....

[dertien]

Keep me posted on this, This could also come in handy to sneak up onto a convoy with only a stopwatch and the hydrophones.

That Norwegian coast will hit harder than any amount of schnapps ever will.

Gute Jagd und Fette Beute, Herr Kaleun

[_Seth_]

Originally Posted by dertien

Keep me posted on this, This could also come in handy to sneak up onto a convoy with only a stopwatch and the hydrophones.

That Norwegian coast will hit harder than any amount of schnapps ever will.

Gute Jagd und Fette Beute, Herr Kaleun

Danke Schön, mein Herr! I will keep you informed. I just turned on the other leg now, operations normal.

No schnapps for the crew until we are done!

[_Seth_]

Here is some pics of the Nav tour. It went better that expected, not a scratch on the keel.
PS: The drawings are made with paint, and the lines are NOT accurate with the original navplot i made on the map, neither in length or degrees. Its just to show the legs on the map.





Its accurate enough for me!
Conclusion: It is possible to navigate in SHIII using only a stopwatch and prefabricated bearings, and without using the map. The course wont deviate that much, yet it have to be tested on longer patrols.