AIP subs leaving our navy in the dust

[ASWnut101]

nukes are loud. plain and simple. the prop wash is loud, and so is the blades smacking the water.

solution: hand cranked paddles.

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Well of corse they will claim 20 knots only a fool will tell you the true truth infact if anyone told you the truth about thier submarines i would seriously think they would be a spy.

Discovery channel claims that the new virginia goes down to 240 meters and has a speed of 25 knots, me and you both know that is one heck of a load of bulls**t as we know the 688i goes down to 400m

Those are the "official" depths and speed. US government releases those for any new sub now. most likley is this:

Virginia: Depth: ~1600 ft.
speed: ~42-45 kts max

Seawolf: Depth: ~1900 ft
speed: ~34-38 kts max

goatland (had to spell it like that): Depth: ~900-1100 ft
Speed: no more than 30 kts

Ohio SSBN: Depth: ~1100 ft max
Speed: ~30-32 kts max

[Kapitan]

I doubt the virginia could hit 42 to 45 knots maybe 36 to 38.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

I doubt the virginia could hit 42 to 45 knots maybe 36 to 38.

Can anybody explain this phenomena of people equating
"The true speed is classified"
with
"The true speed must be at least 10 knots more than what the common estimates say it is."

Considering the physics involved, it is more futile to try and make major lies about speed than about other aspects, like depth. The Americans tried that futile stupidity and I bet they didn't fool a single person who really cared.

If lies are to be made, it is more profitable to make it in depth - it is easier to generate an upper limit based on known limits of metallurgy than to really get the correct depth which is a weak-link-in-countless-systems situation. It will take some serious research for them to find that weak valve you had in Frame 108 that will faill 100 meters before everything else...

Of course, since according to the Americans especially, the real winners in underwater are silencing and sonar (electronics). Both are areas where huge whoppers can be made and no one can be the wiser. But speed?

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Really? Where can one learn more about that? Do you have sources? I'm not disputing what you claim, just would like to read up on it. I can imagine AIP raises some interesting tactical situations, but how fast can an AIP sub go, and for how long? The old diesel subs in WWII were silent, too, but they had to be in position and hope the enemy crossed their path.

There was a series done on TV which followed one of the Collins class as prepared for a 6 month deployment. It's availble on DVD, It called "the Submariners" there is a book also.

Here is the wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_class_submarine

[Captain_Stabbing]

Reading all this bantering about nuke vs electric. It all lreally depends on what kinda waters you are in too. A nuke must keep curculation water while in latoral waters (remember, the cold wars over, and most battles are seeming to be fought in shallower coastal waters these days), while an electric can effectivly shut everything down and just wait like a giant ass-kicking sea mine, making as much noise "as a lightbulb"
And for all these speedy top speeds..... sure you can go balls to to the wall, but its like hunting from a freighttrain. The whole world can hear you, but you have no idea whats anywhere. The old Alpha Soviet boats were a prime example. As fast as they were useless, and man, were they fast.
So speed is nice and all, but I would be more worried about a puttering little diesel anyday over a nuke.
Thats my 2 bits.

[Kapitan]

Even an old whiskey, romeo, or foxtrot could kill a nuke if it just sat there.

[ASWnut101]

or my (still in planning phase) 'midget sub of death'

It will be the envy of the world.

[Linton]

Do not forget that the crew of an antique stationary diesel may be on a suicide mission with the promise of paradise after their death!

[Safe-Keeper]

So in other words, the day Sweden declares war, you're screwed. Better build that bomb shelter quickly, then:p.
[/Swede-teasing]

Heck, the Swedish military is impressive. The Visby-class stealth corvette, the JAS-39 Gripen fighter jet that can touch down on ordinary roads, and now this u-boat that even has the mighty USA stomped.

[Kapitan]

Oh yes the mighty swedes who in 1982 couldnt see a whiskey class submarine fully surfaced inside thier own waters even though it was a stone throw away from the shore, the only time they did notice it was when it ran aground even then they were a bit slow off the mark

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Oh yes the mighty swedes who in 1982 couldnt see a whiskey class submarine fully surfaced inside thier own waters even though it was a stone throw away from the shore, the only time they did notice it was when it ran aground even then they were a bit slow off the mark

Well, everyone, including of course the Russian military (Rust, a bunch of subs starting with K-...etc), has its off days. But Sweden's ability to make a near first-rate fighter all by themselves (more or less) in a world when fighters are getting more complex and expensive does deserve some applause. If Japan had half of whatever it is that Sweden has when it comes to fighter design, the F-2 might have been a success 10 years ago and they'd now be on the F-3.

[Kapitan]

Japan is a good naval force most of thier ships are home built and designed its just the kongo class design was borrowd from the americans and streached to suite japanese needs, also the japanese submarines have whats called progressive decomissioning and its the only navy to do it.

[TteFAboB]

So now that you're all done with the technical part, how about some strategy?

AIP subs deny you access to a coastal sea zone, what are your options?

1. Find another way in, maybe use giant flying wings/zeppelins to land your troops (actually I just want the tech developed for civvie use).
2. Do the Pearl Harbor and start the war with the bombing of the subs while they're in port/vulnerable/pin-pointed.
3. Get your own AIP hunter subs in there somehow, that's gonna be a long journey.
4. Build a giant airborne fishing net connected to an EMP generator (3 giant flying wings/zeppelins) and sweep the sea zone frying any subs that come in contact with the net.
5. Call the Ghostbusters.
6. Call in the Thunderbirds.
7. Use decoys: send in a large remote-controlled fleet of cheap WW2 Liberty Ships equipped with massive decoying devices to completely blind the subs, the rest of your force stay sharp to shut down the decoys at any moment and detect the subs that started moving.
8. Send in Kapitain in the Jahre Viking, with a keel that deep chances are he'll ram the subs.

Any other simple solutions? #7 seems pretty reasonable, if you can't hear you can't aim and if you can't aim you can't shoot and if you do shoot you can only hit a worthless decoy.

[Kapitan]

HEY !!! im not that bad !