The Modders Mindset

[MothBalls]

Disclaimer: This is NOT a complaint, it’s an inqury. I really do appreciate all of the time and effort people take in making modifications, and the additional effort it takes to share them. But I have a question.

Why is it that most mods go out of the way to make things harder?

I understand the concept of making it more realistic, taking the game and trying to make it more like the real conditions that existed in the time period.

The supermods do a great job of packaging together all the available bells and whistles. Here, all new graphics, all new improved sounds, here’s a bunch of tools to make it easier.

Then, they throw in the gotchas. By the way, it now takes twice the torpedos and ten times as long to kill anything and your guns/bullets/gunners have been downsized.

(NYGM is in a different class. The entire intent is to make it as real and difficult as possible. That’s understood from the get go. Some people enjoy the Now You Got Masochism mod, where the next release may include spraying diesel in your hair and lighting it on fire as the next required level of realism.)

Glancing through the readme’s of the upcoming releases on the other two mods, more inclusions to make them even more difficult.

Is there room for one more supermod, where all the eye candy, sounds, tools, campaigns, skins, new ships, etc. get upgraded and then damage and realism can become an option? It’s much easier to add those things after the rest is done, rather than figure out how to remove them once they are in.

[Pants]

Can't say to much mate..but alot of things in GWX is lets say " revised " We Have always tried to scale difficulty from the arcade style player to the Hardcore realism player.

[Notewire]

Not wanting to speak for a couple hundred people, I think I can attempt to answer your question.

1. Most people who are modding the game have played the game extensively, and, in doing so - have then found it too easy, and look for interesting ways to make it more challenging.

2. Many many people who play submarine sims, do so for realism. The unique thing about sub sims is that, given the sensory data apertures of a submarine (hydro, periscope, etc) and the nature of the open ocean, one can make a simulation that is extremely realistic. You could not as easily get the sense of 100% realism from a Tank sim, or a FPS, or even a flight simulator, that you can generate with a PC and given the topic of submarines. I can expound if you don't know what I mean, but I think it is safe to say the sub sims will be the first to achieve immersive realism, as a sub commander sitting in a darkened bridge is not so different from sitting in front of a computer screen in your basement -- vs sitting in a tank turret or cockpit. Anyway, that's my thoughts on why subsimmers generally go for realism.

Generalizing lots of people in a forum, the kinds of folks that like patience and realism play subs, the kinds of guys that like big booms and arcades play Doom II, and the kind of people that like roleplaying and character development play Warcraft Online - and a good game like SH3 with mods will do all of these - but it is still, in it's essence, a subsim.

[Ducimus]

The orginal post is why im contemplating doing a reversal.

The aim for the majority has always been something along the lines of:
- scoring realistic tonnage
- making the escorts more "intelligent"
- making X work like it did historically

etc etc. The focus is usually on historical accuracy, and realism. Theres something of an unwritten rule i think, and that is, essentually, dont make things too "gamey".

Theres three types of ways you can play SH3.

A simulator:
Historical accuracy and realism are the watchwords. Action packed "fun" or something resembeling an action game or shooter, is usually frowned upon.

A sub game:
Historical accuracy and realism are still watchwords, but compromises are made in remembereance that SH3 is after all, a game meant to entertain. Too gamey is still frowned upon.

A shooter:
Jump in sub, shoot torpedo's, blow stuff up, and do crazy things like racing along the surface manning the deck gun against a destroyer.


Now ive played SH3 all three way's extensively, (personnaly i fall between game and shooter in my own tastes) and like everyone else, most of any work ive done ranges in between game and sim, but leaning more toward sim. Some things that ive done, that i think are too gamey ive never released because i feel id get chastized for it. (For example an altered a scene.dat so the wind is static throughout an entire patrol, never changes.. my cheesy answer to the constant 15 kt winds when it drives me nuts)


Now, all that said, ive been contemplating compiling and putting the finishing touchs on a compliation that strives to just fix what was "broken" in the orginal vanilla game, nothing more. Minimalist impact modding soloading times and graphic requirements stay low, and focusing on making the Game fun. Action packed and challenging, but not neccessarly historical accurate to the minute detail. Not create a new experience, not the most ultra realistic game, and not the most gamey game.. but something in between.

Although i doubt there is much intrest in such a compliation. Im really doing it for myself more then anything else.

[Sailor Steve]

Another take (mine, of course)

1) A shooter: the player wants to rack up huge scores ("I'm a member of the one million tons club!")

2) A sub game: the player wants to sink as much tonnage as possible, but wants the difficulty to be such that he may outscore any real captain, but it's hard enough to 'feel' real

3) A simulator: the player is offended if he gets more tonnage than Erich Topp. He wants to feel like he's really there, and nothing else will do

I'd say I fall into the 'Sub game' area. I like the external view.

[Ducimus]

That external view is soo hard to let go, isnt it?

Theres something captivating about watching depth charges explode near your sub. Or seeing it wallow around in rough sea's sporting that nifty ubootswappen on the conning tower.

Seriously, without extenral camera, theres not much point installing all the skinning work that has been done to various ships, aircraft and subs.

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

That external view is soo hard to let go, isnt it?

Theres something captivating about watching depth charges explode near your sub. Or seeing it wallow around in rough sea's sporting that nifty ubootswappen on the conning tower.

Seriously, without extenral camera, theres not much point installing all the skinning work that has been done to various ships, aircraft and subs.

Amen to that

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Theres something captivating about watching depth charges explode near your sub.

I use a very murky underwater setting, so I don't see too many depth charges. On the other hand it's pretty cool to position the camera in the right place and suddenly see your sub come out of the gloom just a few dozen meters away.

I mainly use it in port to go look at all the cool ships and watch my boat set out from a distance. Also to see it from the patrol plane's point of view.

[A6Intruder]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

That external view is soo hard to let go, isnt it?

Theres something captivating about watching depth charges explode near your sub. Or seeing it wallow around in rough sea's sporting that nifty ubootswappen on the conning tower.

Seriously, without extenral camera, theres not much point installing all the skinning work that has been done to various ships, aircraft and subs.

You are so right!!!!!
Greetings from Germany

[Boris]

Originally Posted by A6Intruder

You are so right!!!!!
Greetings from Germany

Yeah, even on full realism I find it hard to let go of the camera. It makes me cheat alot though... following torpedoes, watching the depth charges. I need to take screenshots of all the cool stuff as well!

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I use a very murky underwater setting, so I don't see too many depth charges.

Heheh i cheesed one of my scene.dat files when testing DD attack accuracy, made it ALOT less murky and found myself entranced by it. Thats my excuse anyway, i was testing with depth charge settings. Most fun testing a gameplay change one can ever have.

[THE_MASK]

Try a patrol with no external camera or event cam and its a totally different ball game , heart pounding stuff .

[Jimbuna]

I've tried with and without the external and for me the external is a must have/addiction lol