SHIV Protection system?

TDK1044 · 08-31-06, 11:03 AM

I'm aware that Ubisoft have announced that they will not be using the Starforce protection system for future games, including SH1V, but does anyone know if they're considering using a different protection system that could throw up similar issues, or whether they now realize that such protection software is more trouble than it's worth?

UglyMowgli · 08-31-06, 11:38 AM

I hope it will be CodeMeter, the best one

http://wibu.com/start.php?lang=en

Gizzmoe · 08-31-06, 11:42 AM

We´ll know in a few months which copy protection they use for SH4. Until then everything is just speculation.

fire-fox · 08-31-06, 11:46 AM

Hope fully it will not be BuntyBox.

Errrrrrwwww.... ::Shivers::

Gizzmoe · 08-31-06, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

I hope it will be CodeMeter, the best one

But it´s way too expensive, also it´s not practical for a company that sells many millions of games per year.

Onkel Neal · 08-31-06, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

I hope it will be CodeMeter, the best one

http://wibu.com/start.php?lang=en

Hmmm... looks good. I agree.

TDK1044 · 08-31-06, 12:07 PM

You're right, Gizz. It just seems to me that every software protection system on a game that I'm aware of is usually cracked within weeks of the game's release. As 95 percent of purchasers of the game are honest and are not interested in stealing from Ubisoft ,and the remaining 5 percent are always going to crack the software anyway, I wonder as to the wisdom of using such software?

Onkel Neal · 08-31-06, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044

You're right, Gizz. It just seems to me that every software protection system on a game that I'm aware of is usually cracked within weeks of the game's release. As 95 percent of purchasers of the game are honest and are not interested in stealing from Ubisoft ,and the remaining 5 percent are always going to crack the software anyway, I wonder as to the wisdom of using such software?

I'm trying to understand what this means: As 95 percent of purchasers of the game are honest and are not interested in stealing from Ubisoft ,and the remaining 5 percent are always going to crack the software anyway,

If they purchase the game, aren't 100% of the purchasers honest?? It's the non-purchasers we worry about. Where do your stats come from?

UglyMowgli · 08-31-06, 12:23 PM

Codemeter is use with Steel Beasts Pro SE, no problem with it.

TDK1044 · 08-31-06, 12:34 PM

The vast majority of people who acquire a game like SH3 or SH1V, in my opinion, do so legally by purchasing it. Those people are then punished by having to load needlessly intrusive drivers onto their system, that are there to protect the game from a small number of thieves who will have defeated the protection software within weeks of the game's release. This leaves a high number of legitimate purchasrers struggling with unwanted and intrusive software, while the thieves laugh all the way to the bank. My argument is that the piracy figures would not be any higher, at least not by much, if this software protection was not in place, so why punish the good guys?

Onkel Neal · 08-31-06, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044

The vast majority of people who acquire a game like SH3 or SH1V, in my opinion, do so legally by purchasing it. Those people are then punished by having to load needlessly intrusive drivers onto their system, that are there to protect the game from a small number of thieves who will have defeated the protection software within weeks of the game's release. This leaves a high number of legitimate purchasrers struggling with unwanted and intrusive software, while the thieves laugh all the way to the bank. My argument is that the piracy figures would not be any higher, at least not by much, if this software protection was not in place, so why punish the good guys?

I don’t have any verifiable numbers but I think in the case of SH3, yes, most users acquired that game by purchasing it, because it had very strong copyprotection (I did not say "uncrackable", so all you guys waiting to tell me there was a crack online 3 months before the game came out, please--exhale

)

I respectfully disagree that "vast majority" of people who buy games like SH3 get them legally. One game developer was quoted as saying that there were 5 times more requests for tech support on their game from users without the serial number than from users who bought the game legally. (I wish I had the link handy, if you want I can dig it up tonight, maybe someone else read that blog and they can supply the info). I know from my own experience with Subsim and the web, people use pirated software routinely. I can't begin to tell you how many people have offered to "share" something with me, even good friends and people I work with. It's pretty common, it usually goes like this:

Guy: Yes, I stayed up late last night playing NEWGAMEX, man, it's cool
Neal: Isn't that the one where you play as a Space Ranger?
Guy: Yeah, and you have 32 types of ships and guns.
Neal: Wow, sounds neat.
Guy: Here's a link, get a copy for yourself and let's play.

Not everyone does this, but there are a lot. I believe if you don't pay for it, you shouldn't play it. I know, I know; I don't score any popularity points with that attitude

I agree with you that software protection should not punish the good guys. But I don't think having a dongle to insert into the USB port with the DVD is exactly nerve-shattering punishment

I put more effort into making a bowl of oatmeal. But, hey, it sounds like we both agree that games should not be pirated, right? If a guy spends hundreds of hours working through code and art, putting together a new game, endures the griping that it isn't perfect, witnesses the congratulatory cheers some modder gets for adding a unit, etc…. he at least should get paid for every copy that gets played.

cheers
Neal

Onkel Neal · 08-31-06, 02:55 PM

I found them: starts here
http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2006/072606_ritual_piracy_1.x

Refers to this dev's blog:
http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006/07/games-hidden-cost-of-piracy.html

More here:
http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006/05/piracy-sin-ep-not-work-safe.html

You can imagine how dispiriting it is for a game developer to realize that only 1 in 5 of the people playing his game are honest enough to buy it. I'm not claiming 5:1 is a standard ratio, just that is reported in this case.

cheers,
Neal

Onkel Neal · 08-31-06, 03:16 PM

ok, I see he's updated it:
http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006_0...y_archive.html

Safe-Keeper · 08-31-06, 03:42 PM

Very, very good article. It does a very good job at shooting down the pirates' arguments, and reminds me I've got som decoys to upload to Kazaa

.

Quote:

I know from my own experience with Subsim and the web, people use pirated software routinely. I can't begin to tell you how many people have offered to "share" something with me, even good friends and people I work with. It's pretty common, it usually goes like this:

Guy: Yes, I stayed up late last night playing NEWGAMEX, man, it's cool
Neal: Isn't that the one where you play as a Space Ranger?
Guy: Yeah, and you have 32 types of ships and guns.
Neal: Wow, sounds neat.
Guy: Here's a link, get a copy for yourself and let's play.

Been there, experienced that.

If I had any drawing skills, I'd make a "propaganda" picture featuring a battery of thousand AT guns firing a hail of rounds into a poor stone wall that's about to break down, with some frantic defenders behind it trying to repair it and keep it from being torn apart.

Then I'm going to have a speech bubble from some cannon go "oh, I'm just one gun".

Or maybe I could make a pic' of Dresden being bombed, and have one of the free-falling high explosives utter the "I'm just one being"-line.

TDK1044 · 08-31-06, 06:16 PM

Sure, Neal, but you're talking about the kind of 'shoot em up' games which are targeted at the largest demographic for game sales, males aged 16 to 30. My posting specifies Silent Hunter 3 and Silent Hunter 4, not the kind of nonsense that the 16 to 30 demographic would be out there buying. Most of the 'shoot em up' crowd wouldn't be seen dead with a Silent Hunter game.

The thieves who would work around the clock cracking the 'shoot em up' games do so because of the rewards that are out there because of the massive interest in acquiring those games, but the return on a world war 2 sub sim is going to be so minimal as to be hardly worth it. I think cracking SH3 was a lot more to do with giving Starforce the bird than anything else, and the reason most of the people who got SH3 did so legally had nothing to do with "because it had very strong copyprotection"....Starforce was a joke, the worst of both worlds... easy to crack and very intrusive on your system. I know somebody who purchased SH3 ( he showed me the receipt) and then cracked it for the hell of it because he hated Starforce. it took him 3 days. He's still running Silent Hunter 3 with no Starforce, and he has no intention at all of selling pirate copies of the game. His reason for the hack...In his words "I'm not having that s**t on my computer" I don't condone what he did, and I would never do it, but I sure understand it.

I hope that if we do get SH4 with copyprotection, it's a much better product than Starforce.

08-31-06, 11:03 AM	#1
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	SHIV Protection system? I'm aware that Ubisoft have announced that they will not be using the Starforce protection system for future games, including SH1V, but does anyone know if they're considering using a different protection system that could throw up similar issues, or whether they now realize that such protection software is more trouble than it's worth?

08-31-06, 11:38 AM	#2
UglyMowgli Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 784 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I hope it will be CodeMeter, the best one http://wibu.com/start.php?lang=en __________________ Modern Naval Warfare Community Manager

08-31-06, 11:46 AM	#4
fire-fox Chief Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Peoples Republic of West Yorkshire Posts: 326 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	Hope fully it will not be BuntyBox. Errrrrrwwww.... ::Shivers:: __________________ Running subs aground since SH1 and Silent Service Running SH5 @ 100% difficulty + TWoS 2.2.19(RealNav + BDU + port smoke + food) + Carotio_IntercontinentalRadioPack tweaked + The Little Ships of SH5 - Coaster Pack

08-31-06, 12:23 PM	#9
UglyMowgli Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 784 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Codemeter is use with Steel Beasts Pro SE, no problem with it. __________________ Modern Naval Warfare Community Manager

08-31-06, 02:55 PM	#12
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I found them: starts here http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2006/072606_ritual_piracy_1.x Refers to this dev's blog: http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006/07/games-hidden-cost-of-piracy.html More here: http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006/05/piracy-sin-ep-not-work-safe.html You can imagine how dispiriting it is for a game developer to realize that only 1 in 5 of the people playing his game are honest enough to buy it. I'm not claiming 5:1 is a standard ratio, just that is reported in this case. cheers, Neal __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

08-31-06, 11:42 AM	#3
Gizzmoe Silent Hunter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 3,668 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	We´ll know in a few months which copy protection they use for SH4. Until then everything is just speculation.

08-31-06, 12:07 PM	#7
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	You're right, Gizz. It just seems to me that every software protection system on a game that I'm aware of is usually cracked within weeks of the game's release. As 95 percent of purchasers of the game are honest and are not interested in stealing from Ubisoft ,and the remaining 5 percent are always going to crack the software anyway, I wonder as to the wisdom of using such software?

08-31-06, 12:34 PM	#10
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	The vast majority of people who acquire a game like SH3 or SH1V, in my opinion, do so legally by purchasing it. Those people are then punished by having to load needlessly intrusive drivers onto their system, that are there to protect the game from a small number of thieves who will have defeated the protection software within weeks of the game's release. This leaves a high number of legitimate purchasrers struggling with unwanted and intrusive software, while the thieves laugh all the way to the bank. My argument is that the piracy figures would not be any higher, at least not by much, if this software protection was not in place, so why punish the good guys?

08-31-06, 03:16 PM	#13
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	ok, I see he's updated it: http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006_0...y_archive.html

08-31-06, 06:16 PM	#15
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Sure, Neal, but you're talking about the kind of 'shoot em up' games which are targeted at the largest demographic for game sales, males aged 16 to 30. My posting specifies Silent Hunter 3 and Silent Hunter 4, not the kind of nonsense that the 16 to 30 demographic would be out there buying. Most of the 'shoot em up' crowd wouldn't be seen dead with a Silent Hunter game. The thieves who would work around the clock cracking the 'shoot em up' games do so because of the rewards that are out there because of the massive interest in acquiring those games, but the return on a world war 2 sub sim is going to be so minimal as to be hardly worth it. I think cracking SH3 was a lot more to do with giving Starforce the bird than anything else, and the reason most of the people who got SH3 did so legally had nothing to do with "because it had very strong copyprotection"....Starforce was a joke, the worst of both worlds... easy to crack and very intrusive on your system. I know somebody who purchased SH3 ( he showed me the receipt) and then cracked it for the hell of it because he hated Starforce. it took him 3 days. He's still running Silent Hunter 3 with no Starforce, and he has no intention at all of selling pirate copies of the game. His reason for the hack...In his words "I'm not having that s**t on my computer" I don't condone what he did, and I would never do it, but I sure understand it. I hope that if we do get SH4 with copyprotection, it's a much better product than Starforce.