Are port buoy red and green lights backwards?

[Wolfstriked]

I am a stickler for realism so stuff like this bothers me.When l looked up buoys I found something that SH3 contradicts but I wonder if maybe Germany had decided to do things their own way,like England with driving on left side of road.What I found was that when leaving a port the red buoys should be on port side and green on starboard.Vice versa when entering a port the green buoys are on port side and red on starboard.



""The expression “red right returning” has long been used by seafarers as a reminder
that the red buoys are kept to the starboard (right) side when proceeding from the
open sea into port (upstream). Likewise, green buoys are kept to the port (left) side""


Did Germany do this differently?


http://www.dbw.ca.gov/pages/28702/files/ABC%27s_2016_WaterwayMarkings.pdf

[Mister_M]

In 1943, in France, there was another different color system : https://www.amazon.com/Diagram-Frenc.../dp/B08JH44HJJ

And now, at least in France, the red buoys are on starboard when you leave the harbour...

[Wolfstriked]

Wow confusing to the max.Thanks mister_M for clearing this up for me.

[Mister_M]

Yes, very confusing... So, better not add them if you're looking for realism...

[Wolfstriked]

LOL yeah the Europeans never did get along so I will chalk this up to human realism!

[Doolar]

This is funny that this come up. Very early in my SH3 game days, I thought the same thing. I live along side the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland and Red-Right-Return is standard. That's Red, Port and Green, Starboard when heading out. I was figuring it was a non-standard European thing what wasn't standardized until a date after the war at some comference or something like that. No big deal, I just thought that I was the only that noticed that.

[iambecomelife]

On top of all this, I know that some European countries used black instead of green as the designated color for Starboard buoys. IIRC correct colors in the British Isles for many years was red for port, black for starboard, and yellow for wreck buoys.

After WWII green for starboard became standard worldwide (I think!) Before WWII ended buoy systems were, in fact, very confusing due to lack of consistency worldwide....

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by Doolar

This is funny that this come up. Very early in my SH3 game days, I thought the same thing. I live along side the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland and Red-Right-Return is standard. That's Red, Port and Green, Starboard when heading out. I was figuring it was a non-standard European thing what wasn't standardized until a date after the war at some comference or something like that. No big deal, I just thought that I was the only that noticed that.

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

On top of all this, I know that some European countries used black instead of green as the designated color for Starboard buoys. IIRC correct colors in the British Isles for many years was red for port, black for starboard, and yellow for wreck buoys.

After WWII green for starboard became standard worldwide (I think!) Before WWII ended buoy systems were, in fact, very confusing due to lack of consistency worldwide....

As in real life we simmers must be confused too!

[Wolfstriked]

Gonna just ask this here rather than start a new thread.Was the type7c/42 actually used? This site says it never saw service so I wonder why its playable....


https://uboat.net/types/viic-42.htm

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

Gonna just ask this here rather than start a new thread.Was the type7c/42 actually used? This site says it never saw service so I wonder why its playable....


https://uboat.net/types/viic-42.htm

Talked to Capt. Lehmann and he said it was never used in combat.

[Wolfstriked]

Yeah,its a weird sub to include in base game IMO for this reason.And the model we have has the observation scope in the command room while its supposed to be in the conning tower like type IX.I guess the want of MO POWA aka more torpedoes could of been why they chose to include it...

[Kongo Otto]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

I am a stickler for realism so stuff like this bothers me.When l looked up buoys I found something that SH3 contradicts but I wonder if maybe Germany had decided to do things their own way,like England with driving on left side of road.What I found was that when leaving a port the red buoys should be on port side and green on starboard.Vice versa when entering a port the green buoys are on port side and red on starboard.



""The expression “red right returning” has long been used by seafarers as a reminder
that the red buoys are kept to the starboard (right) side when proceeding from the
open sea into port (upstream). Likewise, green buoys are kept to the port (left) side""


Did Germany do this differently?


http://www.dbw.ca.gov/pages/28702/files/ABC%27s_2016_WaterwayMarkings.pdf

The technical committee of the International Association of Lighthouse Authorities finally proposed a solution in 1973 which comprised two systems, one operating in the areas around America and the regions influenced by the Americans and one operating in the rest of the world. The regions were called REGION A and REGION B. The main difference between the two systems is the colour of the lateral buoys. In Region A the colour red of the lateral system is used to mark the port side of channels and the colour green the starboard side. In Region B the colours are reversed.

Source: https://maritimesa.org/nautical-scie...-introduction/

The buoys in Sh3's French ports are using the modern IALA Region A buoyage system.
Red right returning is only a thing in the IALA region B which is shown in the pic below.

[Wolfstriked]

They couldn't agree even in 1973? I want red as port side outbound NO I want green as port side outbound!Ok we will divide half the world as region A and the other half as region B....does that work? Yeah that seems a great compromise.

[Kongo Otto]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

They couldn't agree even in 1973? I want red as port side outbound NO I want green as port side outbound!Ok we will divide half the world as region A and the other half as region B....does that work? Yeah that seems a great compromise.

It does work since then without many problems as Region A is basically (when entering port) the same as the position of the ships navigation light port=red, starboard green.
Not really much confusing.
Red right returning = Region B
Red right leaving = Region A

Prior to that solution Europe alone had 9 different bouyage systems.
NINE!! *facepalm*
It surely wasn't easy to get all the worlds nation to agree to these two regions.
But two regions are still better than the plethora of different systems which were used before that.

By the way Germany used the same system (introduced 1887) as the French which Mister M has posted before in this thread.
So if somebody wants to do a historically correct buoyage system for the French U-Boat bases he could make it that way.

[Wolfstriked]

It was 9 and now its 2....progress has been made As for the correct buoys in France mod,I doubt anyone but a select few like us would care.I for one actually enjoy piloting out of harbors at 1X speed so yeah I would use it.