Hard time with manual targeting

kacpro090 · 12-29-21, 07:57 AM

Hello,
I've started playing SH4 lately. I've decided to play the game with manual targeting, since I thought I could do well (I have experience with SH3 TDC to this point where I can hit a target).
In SH4 I started to notice that each time I would launch a torpedo it would miss the target. It seemed like the speed was messed up or something, since on the attack map it was aiming to close to the ship's bow.

Any tips on how can I better myself on the SH4's manual targeting?

Kpt. Weyprecht · 01-01-22, 07:54 AM

Hard to say but it might be the speed. Don't forget to punch the data you collect in the TDC (click on the arrow button on the right-hand slide-out panel). Try to do the training missions first, the American TDC is good but you have to use it the intended way. I try to experiment with the constant bearing firing method but I seem to be less precise than with the basic, more-or-less check bearing method.
Also, if you uste the speed and target course given by your crew when you click on the stopwatch icon, remember it depends on the precision of your stadimeter ranging so it will only be usable at rather short ranges. Unlike a real plot, this will only use last two bearings and ranges (real-life plot team would always use the oldest and the newest position to avearge-out the errors). I still have map contacts enabled and use this to work out target course and speed, then use this to check the precision of my ranging.

I also recommend the "Easy AoB" mod il you play FotRS, it really helps.

Hope this helps.

kacpro090 · 01-02-22, 06:11 AM

I just noticed that I was using 3-15 method to determine the target's speed, instead of the 3 minute method.
I forgot that 3-15 is used for metric system, and 3 minute method is used for imperial system.
Anyway thanks for the reply!

Bubblehead1980 · 01-04-22, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kacpro090

I just noticed that I was using 3-15 method to determine the target's speed, instead of the 3 minute method.
I forgot that 3-15 is used for metric system, and 3 minute method is used for imperial system.
Anyway thanks for the reply!

One of the most common errors new players (to SH 4) make, likely your issue.

One thing I have noticed is some people tend to get hung up, confused by the various "methods" of shooting which are really not needed. The American TDC is pretty easy to use, quite accurate, and much as in real life has a major advantage...the Position Keeper.

I would advise ignore the various "designer" firing methods and learn the US TDC and "normal" attacks with the TDC and Position Keeper.

Pisces · 01-06-22, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

...
I would advise ignore the various "designer" firing methods ...

What do you mean with "designer firing methods"?

Bubblehead1980 · 01-08-22, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

What do you mean with "designer firing methods"?

There are various firing methods given names, thus the term "designer", but have noticed they tend to confuse new players more than anything, so just advising learn to hit targets with the standard/traditional methods via scope/TBT and TDC with PK, which work fine. One thing SH 4 did mostly get right is the TDC and PK.

Target speed and proper angle seems to be the real issues new players have, esp those coming from the ATO where firing german torpedoes is a little different, but enough to cause confusion. The Position Keeper (PK) is a real advantage as it was for US subs during the war. TMO mod has the 3d TDC and radar range range, which is a huge help, esp if play without map contacts.

derstosstrupp · 01-10-22, 11:01 AM

That brings an interesting thought, I wonder how many players use the PK as a data acquisition (or I should say refinement) tool. That was a huge advantage of it, and a skilled operator could make adjustments to target course and speed on his own based on the differences in observed vs generated bearings and ranges and have a good solution after 15-20 minutes.

The Germans did the same but with the boat itself - they’d simply watch the mast tips and make adjustments to their own course and speed until the bearing didn’t change and the tips stayed the same, a procedure called “Ausdampfen”. Of course, the American system was superior in that regard as it allowed freedom of maneuver while the data-gathering was taking place, but still interesting that the preferred methods were in principle the same.

Bubblehead1980 · 01-10-22, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

That brings an interesting thought, I wonder how many players use the PK as a data acquisition (or I should say refinement) tool. That was a huge advantage of it, and a skilled operator could make adjustments to target course and speed on his own based on the differences in observed vs generated bearings and ranges and have a good solution after 15-20 minutes.

The Germans did the same but with the boat itself - they’d simply watch the mast tips and make adjustments to their own course and speed until the bearing didn’t change and the tips stayed the same, a procedure called “Ausdampfen”. Of course, the American system was superior in that regard as it allowed freedom of maneuver while the data-gathering was taking place, but still interesting that the preferred methods were in principle the same.

I will say, based on a decade or so (hard to believe) of involvement with SH 4 and Subsim, most new players do not use the PK, initially anyways. One is many likely do not read the manual, which if I recall provided a decent explanation of how to use the TDC.Those that do may be confused as to what it does or they get on here and some see discussion about the various "designer" firing methods and try to go straight to this, instead of learning the fundamentals. One reason in my forthcoming TMO Update, am providing more training missions on torpedo firing during new construction.

Like I mentioned in other post, the TDC and PK( esp if running the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit mod, which is incorporated into TMO), provides the player with a great deal of functionality in the TDC and PK. Conversely, would say most experienced players do use the PK, as they have learned.

That is interesting about the Uboats, I was not aware of Ausdampfen, thanks for sharing that.

12-29-21, 07:57 AM	#1
kacpro090 Sailor man Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 43 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Hard time with manual targeting Hello, I've started playing SH4 lately. I've decided to play the game with manual targeting, since I thought I could do well (I have experience with SH3 TDC to this point where I can hit a target). In SH4 I started to notice that each time I would launch a torpedo it would miss the target. It seemed like the speed was messed up or something, since on the attack map it was aiming to close to the ship's bow. Any tips on how can I better myself on the SH4's manual targeting?

01-10-22, 11:01 AM	#7
derstosstrupp Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 918 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 0	That brings an interesting thought, I wonder how many players use the PK as a data acquisition (or I should say refinement) tool. That was a huge advantage of it, and a skilled operator could make adjustments to target course and speed on his own based on the differences in observed vs generated bearings and ranges and have a good solution after 15-20 minutes. The Germans did the same but with the boat itself - they’d simply watch the mast tips and make adjustments to their own course and speed until the bearing didn’t change and the tips stayed the same, a procedure called “Ausdampfen”. Of course, the American system was superior in that regard as it allowed freedom of maneuver while the data-gathering was taking place, but still interesting that the preferred methods were in principle the same. __________________ Ask me anything about the Type VII or IX! One-Stop Targeting Shop: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...WwBt-1vjW28JbO My YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIJ...9FXbD3S2kgwdPQ

01-01-22, 07:54 AM	#2
Kpt. Weyprecht Gunner Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Paris, France Posts: 97 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	Hard to say but it might be the speed. Don't forget to punch the data you collect in the TDC (click on the arrow button on the right-hand slide-out panel). Try to do the training missions first, the American TDC is good but you have to use it the intended way. I try to experiment with the constant bearing firing method but I seem to be less precise than with the basic, more-or-less check bearing method. Also, if you uste the speed and target course given by your crew when you click on the stopwatch icon, remember it depends on the precision of your stadimeter ranging so it will only be usable at rather short ranges. Unlike a real plot, this will only use last two bearings and ranges (real-life plot team would always use the oldest and the newest position to avearge-out the errors). I still have map contacts enabled and use this to work out target course and speed, then use this to check the precision of my ranging. I also recommend the "Easy AoB" mod il you play FotRS, it really helps. Hope this helps.

01-02-22, 06:11 AM	#3
kacpro090 Sailor man Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 43 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	I just noticed that I was using 3-15 method to determine the target's speed, instead of the 3 minute method. I forgot that 3-15 is used for metric system, and 3 minute method is used for imperial system. Anyway thanks for the reply!