Escorts in Wolves of Steel

[TheNolan]

Still loving this game, getting good enough with the torpedoes that I may go with 100% realism next campaign. One question about escorts tho, did they really just go in a straight line slow with the merchants? They seem pretty easy to sink if so. I'm on med diff with all realism settings except no map updates.

tried googling this but only found strategic info, not how the individual escorts actually behaved.

[les green01]

they would go back and forth thing about targeting escorts is shallow dept and not worth the eel

[TheNolan]

Is there something like the uboats captain handbook that talks about their tactics?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by TheNolan

Is there something like the uboats captain handbook that talks about their tactics?

There are various books written by various escort commanders, etc. "U-Boat Killer" is a good one. Various books about the escort carriers/groups have some info. too.

But no, they didn't just travel in a straight line.

[TheNolan]

Thank you for the suggestions. I also found https://maritime.org/doc/ which looks to have some promising articles.

I think the escorts in TWoS do rotate positions in larger convoys occasionally, and on all convoys they will randomly run search patterns. Still I find most of the time I can plot an ambush about 15 to 20 km in front of them and they will sail into it.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by TheNolan

Is there something like the uboats captain handbook that talks about their tactics?

JEEZE! Now that I've just been nominated for Most Helpful by Fitzcarraldo, I'd better live up 2 billing https://maritime.org/doc/uboat/index.htm
...actually posted recently by Silent Otto Required meticulous reading from a 'primary source' ...no IMHO 'bout it! ENJOI!!

[TheNolan]

Thank you for responding Aktungbby! Sorry for the poor wording on my part but I was actually wondering if there is a destroyer/escort captain's handbook, similar to the handbook for uboat captain's.

Edit: I had read the uboat handbook before but I totally missed it came from the maritime.org site lol

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by TheNolan

Thank you for responding Aktungbby! Sorry for the poor wording on my part but I was actually wondering if there is a destroyer/escort captain's handbook, similar to the handbook for uboat captain's

Never apologise for poor wording in Truthfully, the captured U-boat commander handbook allows a destroyer skipper to counter some poor 20-something expendible kaleün just out of training inept by-the-book rôte tactics in a limited submersible torpedo boat. Said kaleün's only alternative would be the Eastern front and inevitable slow demise by Cold, Starvtion, or overdose of Pervitin!!! Plus once a group of ladies and an experienced Brit game designer laid out the convoy game on the floor; and came up with the raspberry tactic the jig was inevitably up! https://time.com/5772665/uboat-wargames/

As he watched Noble saw, for the first time, the cardinal errors that had been responsible for such tremendous loss of life at sea. When the demonstration was finished, the Admiral stood to his feet, congratulated Roberts and asked what the maneuver was to be called.
Laidlaw explained that she had christened it Raspberry.
It was, she said, a razz of contempt aimed at Hitler and his U-boat fleet.
The commander in chief then turned to one of his men and told him to take down a message to be sent to the Prime Minister. “The first investigations have shown a cardinal error in U-boat tactics,” he said. “A new, immediate and concerted counter-attack will be signaled to the fleet within 24 hours.”

But,again, in the interest of helpfulness: ENJOI!

 

https://maritime.org/doc/ WW II Destroyer:

Standard Organization Book for 2100-Ton Destroyers, 1943. This describes the organization of the personnel and standard procedures on a WW II destroyer. Among the many tables there are details that provide insight in to the life aboard and operation of a destroyer.
Destroyer Steam Propulsion Manual, 1946. This describes the main propulsion plant of DD445 and DD692 Classes.

Operating Instructions for Five Inch, 38 Caliber, Gun Crews, 1943. This describes the operation of one of the most common manual gun mounts of WW II.

5-Inch Twin Gun Mount Mark 28, 32 and 38, OP 805, 1944, is a detailed manual describing this very successful naval gun from WW II.

Torpedo Fire Control Equipment (Destroyer Type), 1947. This manual describes the peak of WW II US destroyer torpedo fire control technology.

21-Inch Above Water Torpedo Tubes Mark 14 And Mods And Mark 15 And Mods, OP 764, 1955. Describes the destroyer, deck mounted torpedo tube of WW II.

Depth Charge Projector Mark 1, OP 63, 1918, covers the "Y" gun depth charge projector.

Depth Charge Projector Mark 6, Mod 1 and Mod 2, OP 831, 1944, covers the "K" gun depth charge projector.

Depth Charge Release Tracks and Associated Equipment, OP 904, 1952, covers the U.S.N. depth charge used on WW II and early Cold War destroyers.

Submarine Recognition Manual, ca. late 1950s. subrec.pdf (3.4 MB PDF).

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by TheNolan

Thank you for the suggestions. I also found https://maritime.org/doc/ which looks to have some promising articles.

I think the escorts in TWoS do rotate positions in larger convoys occasionally, and on all convoys they will randomly run search patterns. Still I find most of the time I can plot an ambush about 15 to 20 km in front of them and they will sail into it.

Unfortunately, none of the escorts in the SH Atlantic settings (never tried the Pacific versions) behave as well as they should in regards to search patterns.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Unfortunately, the escorts in the SH Atlantic settings (never tried the Pacific versions) behave as well as they should in regards to search patterns.

Pacific versions have more realistic AI tactics due to Japanese being worse at ASW than Allies, so poor AI is by definition more accurate

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Pacific versions have more realistic AI tactics due to Japanese being worse at ASW than Allies, so poor AI is by definition more accurate

[les green01]

thing you got to think about tactics would change overtime depends on the year might be a outer ring exe some might be mowing the yard around the convoy

[TheNolan]

lol good call kapuhy.

Yes I'm still in 1940 so maybe tactics will evolve. Still a great game either way.

Merry Christmas everyone

[John Pancoast]

Also, in terms of tactics used by the ai escorts in the Sh games set in the Atlantic, that silly move where the port/starboard escort peels off on a regular basis to go on a long extended sight seeing jaunt, thereby leaving said beam of the convoy completely unescorted and exposed, is completely ahistorical and unrealistic.
I suspect the developers put it in the game so players could do exactly what it allows; an easy way to attack the convoy.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Also, in terms of tactics used by the ai escorts in the Sh games set in the Atlantic, that silly move where the port/starboard escort peels off on a regular basis to go on a long extended sight seeing jaunt, thereby leaving said beam of the convoy completely unescorted and exposed, is completely ahistorical and unrealistic.
I suspect the developers put it in the game so players could do exactly what it allows; an easy way to attack the convoy.

Do you by chance have links to some sources on how the escort behaviour should look in real convoy?

At the moment I'm busy with importing new ships, but SH5 AI is scriptable (TDW and vdr1981 already did a lot of improvement on it compared to vanilla game) and more realistic behaviour might be something to work on for the future, either for me or the other modders.