SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Sub/Naval + Other Games > Classic Subsims
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-21, 06:17 AM   #1
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Icon7 CAOD / AOD Game Tactics

I’ve actually tried to start this thread twice and the editing dropped me when hitting the backspace bar! So, third times a charm and I’ll type it up in Word and paste it in this time to be safe!


As some of us try to experiment a bit on Hex Editing issues and maybe workarounds for some of the game faults, I thought perhaps we could discuss some actual game play tactics that members like to use. Have a favorite area or type of mission you like to play or, perhaps a portion of the game you never played but are interested in. What works for you and what doesn’t; what do you learn after trying a certain tactic? How many try to reference what’s happening in game play to what was actually happening in the same time period?


I was told that AOD plays virtually the same as CAOD, so feel free to comment on either game and perhaps the tactics in one might prove beneficial in the other. Let’s just not keep bashing one game or the other for whatever reasons as it adds nothing to the thread IMO.


I’ll start with an example and you can add in as much, or as little information you want; doesn’t matter what time period, type of boat, etc.



Last edited by Silent Otto; 12-19-21 at 09:25 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-21, 06:38 AM   #2
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Icon7

Feel like a Med Cruise! Warm sunny beaches, good wine, pretty Italian girls; Get a tan and probably the clap too!! Where do I sign up!?
The game is geared for battle in the Atlantic. No surprise there and the primary targets for U-boats were Merchants. However, what U-boat Kapitan would pass up a warship if given opportunity? So, let’s get there.

First, getting through the Straits of Gibraltar wasn’t easy and in game play it’s probably a lot easier than real life. Still, you don’t waltz through and getting in is a lot easier than getting back out. Remember, in real life, no U-boat was successful getting back into the Atlantic.

What I have found is, sticking to a certain time frame and time of day for my Mediterranean excursions. Escorts are in two groups, those at the western entrance and those inside, more adjacent to “the Rock”.
I prefer going in the spring of 1941. Sun’s out but not until 2130hrs, flowers are in bloom, Prien, Kretschmer and Schepke are not having a good time and won’t be around when you get back. Send Otto a postcard!

Things to consider:

Current’s: The currents run about 4-5 knots and are typically stronger in the autumn and weaker in the winter months. You can go deep (190m) and ride the current doing full speed if necessary by following a deep narrow ridge on the northern side of the strait but keep a watchful ear on sounding below your keel or you will hit rock if you deviate too much. At 190m at full speed, your pumps still work and you can outrun most depth charges if they find you and … they will.

There is no way you are getting back out submerged, unless you have a Type XXI boat. The current runs as fast as or faster than any Type VII or Type IX can do submerged. All you do is drain your batteries and they usually die out about midway through the strait. Remember, it’s about 25 miles distance.

I usually try the Das Boot approach. Start out on the surface and inch my way in, watching and identifying what kind of escorts I see. Remember, you can outrun corvettes but, you don’t see what’s down the road and most are destroyers. Try to wait until it’s good and dark and hope for low visibility. I’ve made it through on the surface in low vis, but it’s hairy and lots of zig-zagging to avoid escorts and then … they often get you in the shoal waters and trap you where you can’t dive. End of story. I recommend surface approach, staying close to the deep areas and when you simply can’t evade – DIVE!

Getting back out, is along the lines of getting in as far as approach but, time your actual strait passage only after the visibility drops to under 1000m. Flank speed and play James Bond with a speedboat weaving in and out of the mist. Hopefully… If you find yourself not making it, go back and wait, and then try again.

I recommend prior to leaving, load up on torpedoes’ and be prepared to sink some of the escorts guarding the passage, at least on the eastern (Rock) side. Once you’re in the western escort group, RUN and you’ll make it out.

Escorts: I try to time my Mediterranean holiday prior to mid-1941 as the escorts are fewer then. After the U.S. comes into the war and certainly after OP Torch, the amount of escorts guarding the strait almost doubles. I’ve counted nine once! Getting out is near impossible! Mostly destroyers, what kind you ask—THE FAST KIND and it’s a mix and match. Later, you add the Frigates and Sloops; it’s a real ****-storm. I once had to sink seven escorts on the eastern side just to get out!

Also, of note: There will usually be a convoy transiting the area soon after you get west of the strait, so having torpedoes is a good thing. Want to show something to the boss upon return to France when he asks “Where the hell have you been?!?!”

General Info: Don’t be worried about aircraft, it will be dark. When entering the Mediterranean, day or night, be ready for a quick, probably two Lt. Cruiser convoy heavily escorted. They will either be 7,000 ton Dido Class or 10,000 ton Fiji Class and usually a torpedo each will suffice but they move quick (25-35kts)! Get as close as you can to the formation, dive to periscope depth and try to get under at least 2,000 meters. Use an offset – Good LUCK!

Q: How do you sink those fast moving warships?
A: The same way you get to Carnegie Hall; Practice, practice, practice!

I’ll put some attachments up of the Strait area with some tidbits for those interested in a couple posts to follow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-21, 06:53 AM   #3
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default Viginia asks: Are there ships in the Mediterranean daddy?

Yes Virginia, as long as you know where to look.


Going into the Med is really a hunt for warships prior to the Italian's surrendering. However, there are merchants, where you ask?


Close to Gibraltar. Remember, there was a large harbor at Algeciras and all kinds of ships moored there. Also, across the strait at Ceuta.


All the convoys you see going into and out of the Med start/stop here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Gibralter Area - Merchant Conoys map200.JPG (30.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 3b200.JPG (23.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 3a200.JPG (31.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 1938 British Fleet 1200.JPG (45.1 KB, 8 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-21, 10:20 AM   #4
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default Okay, I'm in the Med! Now What?

Well, you have some options:


- You can hang around the eastern approaches to the strait as it's fairly constrained and there's only one way in and one way out. You might be there for a week or so though, if you're just hanging around for another military convoy. Good practice on stalking escorts!!


There are occasional merchants that traverse the inside passage back and forth on the eastern side but, it's hit or miss and convoys do start to fill up with the ships that ultimately make the convoy run.


- You can go up to La Spezia to check-in and go out clubbing, OR go get some!!


- You should have more than enough torpedo's to check things out and the place that's happening these days I hear is in Malta.




Military convoys only at this point. Proceed east to Malta and convoys both start and some end there, but everything eventually leaves. Check out the maps attached. The bolder the red lines, the heavier traffic and better chances you have meeting someone.


Convoy makeup varies but, plan on ~7 escorts (all destroyers now), maybe a carrier, maybe two! I have never been able to sink both carriers in one attack, one and my best, damaged the second but it got away. Battleships, all types and heavy and light cruisers a bunch. Malta is an airbase, sometimes shore planes and the carriers will definitely have them during the day!


Same thing on setting up the attack, watch the time compression drop to 900 and you know they are nearby. At first sign, usually an escort, move at flank speed to get directions, speed, and move to close the distance to the target. Plan an intercept point, as these guys are moving between 25-35 knots and change course when you least expect it.


If there is a carrier in the group, watch for planes and if they come, dive to at least 50m and then once passed, back to periscope depth. Don't dilly-dally being too far down for too long or they will be in your rearview mirror and the opportunity is lost.


Try to position yourself ahead of the targets and let them come to you. If you dive too late and the main group sees you, they will divert course; be ready for that if possible. Pick out one of the big boys and give him a couple kisses and then focus on a second target. Keep the rear torpedo's for the Lt. Cruiser or whatever is coming up behind you and … maybe you'll be a star when pulling into La Spezia! Maybe not.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Malta - Benghazi Convoy Rte200.JPG (36.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (29.9 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (34.4 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by Silent Otto; 12-19-21 at 10:33 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-21, 11:04 AM   #5
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default

Note to self! When previewing posts, do NOT preview the attachment as you can't get back to everything you just wrote! Start again!




Greece doesn't open for business right away and you may want to wait until both La Spezia and Salamis are available. Salamis, Greece is an short, easy commute to the next area of operation and that is ... the Crete to Alexandra route.


The tactics are the same, just a change in scenery and opportunity to sink more large warships. You do get more planes coming out of Alexandria than Malta had and they usually forecast that a convoy is a day or two out.


Convoys travel up the waterway and eventually come back down and you can hear the engine noises before seeing the convoys. Loud and annoying but a good sign. Don't be upset if you hear them and never make sight of the convoy, it happens sometimes. Stick to the paths on the map and you'll be successful.


You have better chances to get carriers here and I see more King George V class BB's here as well. Watch your depth if your close to Alexandria.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Crete - Alexandria Convoy Rte200.JPG (31.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 3.JPG (59.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 4.JPG (51.9 KB, 10 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-21, 11:29 AM   #6
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default

When you tire of the Med and it won't take long to get frustrated going after military convoys, head back to Gibraltar and work your way out and back to France.


Remember to top off your torpedo's and have those Italian girls polish them real good before saying goodbye!


My schedule usually has me in the Med about two months. That allows me to give my guys a port visit to both La Spezia and Salamis and with a full load out of torpedo's, more than enough to shoot at in between.


I hit Malta in route to Crete and depending on results wait until I'm empty and then hit one port or the other. Then, I lay near Alexandria and do it all over again. On my way out, I swing by Malta...just in case I get lucky and depending on results, one more loadout and out I go.


- Important notes!


- If you at least damage a warship and slow it down, the rest leave it behind, including the escorts, just be patient and stalk the target. I hit a carrier once and ended up stalking it all the way from west Malta to Ceuta before making a long range final hit.


- Don't try to waste your deck gun on Warships, the armor is just too thick. Tried 220 shells once to finish a Battleship dead in the water. No go!


Remember, warships do not add to your tonnage score as they are not merchants but … they do add points to your overall score and that helps getting you up higher on the Top Score List. Good Luck and learn how to use those offsets, they help on fast moving transports as well.


Enjoy!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5.JPG (60.9 KB, 10 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-21, 11:57 AM   #7
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,202
Downloads: 501
Uploads: 4


Default

Good stuff ! Here's a few quick general tips for the North Atlantic.


- at 180 meters depth, if not on silent running your boat cannot empty the bilges but it also will not take on any other water. Your pumps are at equilibrium with the water pressure at this depth.
Any deeper, you will slowly take on water and gain depth if on silent running or you will have to use compressed air to empty the water out if not on silent running. <- this noise attracts undesired attention from any escorts nearby.

- at 150 meters depth or less, your pumps alone can deal with any water that leaks into the boat (from non-damage sources only). Also at this depth, your pumps will slowly expel any accumulated water; compressed air not required.
NOTE: If on silent running, eventually at any depth your pumps won't be able to keep up and you'll take on water and gain depth, but it takes longer the shallower your boat is due to the difference in water pressure.

Your Chief Engineer will inform you of the status of all this when necessary, along withe the "g" key gauges.
- be careful with your periscope. It WILL be spotted if careless and it takes a much shorter time than in SH3, i.e.
- when wanting to avoid escorts, go deep but keep an eye on the water level in your boat per above. Use silent running only when absolutely needed vs. on all the time, because of the water issue.
Depth, speed, and course changes are the key to dealing with AOD escorts, usually all at the same time.
- use the map screen to keep track of escorts when you're submerged. Go to 500 meters or less magnification level.
This allows you to see which escort(s) is closest to you and what they're doing via the movement of the red bearing lines showing their relative position.
- AOD has a very detailed damage model. DO NOT casually deal with leaks/flooding warnings due to damage.


More later if desired.
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-21, 11:07 PM   #8
Silent Otto
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Icon7

Thanks John!

C'mon guys, there are more that play the game than just John and I. Let's hear what others are doing?

Don't have to be story-like, just some tips or whatever you want to add. I started with the Mediterranean as I keep reading there are no ships there. There are but granted, going to the Med is more about hunting warships and I think the experience is good to learn. There are military convoys in the Atlantic once in awhile too, just need to be ready when you run into one.

Re: Attacking Atlantic Merchant Convoys.

This really applies to convoys anywhere but you need a few things:

- Deep enough water to evade escorts and depth charges.
- Enough torpedoes to make it worth the effort.
- Guts and patience.

Note: Convoy escorts (lightly escorted = 2 to 4 escorts; moderately escorted = 4 - 6 escorts; and heavily escorted = 7 or more escorts, usually 7 to 9 but can be as high as 11)

I like to decimate convoys if possible, especially early on where you find convoys lightly escorted and with primitive radars. I use my deck gun to the fullest extent possible, augmenting my torpedoes. I like to penetrate the convoys and work from inside, hence my "nickname" - Silent Otto.

What I find is, attacking the escorts first (if lightly to moderately escorted) pays off, as once the escorts are finished I can take my time eliminating the merchants at my leisure. More than moderately escorted, only out of necessity as its a waste of torpedoes.

1) Watch your time compression and when it goes to 900 or less. a convoy is near. You can keep heading in the same direction and hope of running into it or, dive periodically to periscope depth and drop to 1/3 and listen on the hydrophones. Look for the telltale white line and then surface, speed to flank and find that convoy.

2) You want the black icon on the map to show the convoy as once you dive, it could change course and you might lose it altogether. This is especially true in low visibility. Dive and listen as needed. Make a convoy report to get the icon, course, speed, escort level.

3) Approach the convoy and watch what type of escorts make up the guarding force. You can outrun corvettes, so don't waste precious torpedoes on them unless you really have to. All destroyers are faster than you and will chase you down, especially in daytime hours. Frigates and Sloops can as well, but they are a bit more skittish in nature. Remember, not all escorts are near the convoy itself, some are distant pickets.

Let them chase you and dive, taking them out one by one. Then, approach the convoy from behind and let your deck crew have their way with them.

Practice, and remember, the official U-boat Commander's Handbook states the U-boat is not designed as a "Gunnery Vessel" and should not be used as such. Refer to Section V, para 271 - 279. The on-scene Captain has the authority to use his best judgement in any case. Good Hunting!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-21, 04:18 PM   #9
FUBAR295
Krusty Krab
 
FUBAR295's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Decks awash in the North Atlantic
Posts: 1,357
Downloads: 475
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks guys. Great stuff.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295
__________________
Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment.


FUBAR295 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.