ALL THE MISSING FEATURES THAT A WWII SUBMARINE SIMULATION SHOULD HAVE

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

AOD with current graphics would do. Period. Heck, it does even without current graphics.

What has AOD more than SH3 ?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

What has AOD more than SH3 ?

In a nutshell, many, many mods that have been made for SH3 were to replicate something already in AOD, and in AOD they work whereas in SH3, they may only kind of/sort of work because of the game limitations a modder has to work with in SH3. And some items that are in AOD are still not in SH3.

In terms of simulating the Battle of the Atlantic, the only things SH3 has over AOD are graphics and manual targeting.
If one enjoys SH3, they owe it to themselves to try AOD. But they'll have to change their tactics; the sloppy tactics one can use in SH3 will get one sunk every time in AOD, as AOD simulates escort/aircraft/convoy behavior much better/realistically.

[Bubblehead1980]

Proper dark nights and ability to conduct realistic night surface attacks, including getting inside convoys as some boats did.

In SH 4, I have made this possible via adjustments of sim.cfg, additions of darker nights, and adjustment to visual sensors in the Pacific side of things and plan to try in SH 4 ATO mods and SH 3 in near future.

works great actually. However, if this was inherent into the design of the sim, would work better.

HUGE oversight/omission by devs to not make this possible in the stock version.

AI subs capable of conducting realistic torpedo attacks--friendly and enemy as well. Have them in SH 4 as well now, but still would be better if was a "natural" element of SH 4.

Like you said, historical traffic out of the box so us modders do not have to spend time doing this tedious task so have a realistic campaign.


A spherical earth with ACCURATE geography and detailed map with realistic weather. Really is shameful how things are in the stock games.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Proper dark nights and ability to conduct realistic night surface attacks, including getting inside convoys as some boats did.

In SH 4, I have made this possible via adjustments of sim.cfg, additions of darker nights, and adjustment to visual sensors in the Pacific side of things and plan to try in SH 4 ATO mods and SH 3 in near future.

I very would like that for SH3...

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

works great actually. However, if this was inherent into the design of the sim, would work better.

HUGE oversight/omission by devs to not make this possible in the stock version.

AI subs capable of conducting realistic torpedo attacks--friendly and enemy as well. Have them in SH 4 as well now, but still would be better if was a "natural" element of SH 4.

Like you said, historical traffic out of the box so us modders do not have to spend time doing this tedious task so have a realistic campaign.

A spherical earth with ACCURATE geography and detailed map with realistic weather. Really is shameful how things are in the stock games.

[SnipersHunter]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

AOD with current graphics would do. Period. Heck, it does even without current graphics.

This plus full manual tdc and the possibility for celnav

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by SnipersHunter

This plus full manual tdc and the possibility for celnav

Understood, though I prefer the mode of commander vs. navigator, etc.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

AOD simulates escort/aircraft/convoy behavior much better/realistically.

Well, I saw a gameplay video on youtube and I didn't see AI being better...

How is AI better in AOD ?

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

And some items that are in AOD are still not in SH3.

Could you be more specific ?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Well, I saw a gameplay video on youtube and I didn't see AI being better...

How is AI better in AOD ?



Could you be more specific ?

Well, basing an opinion on anything (including SH3) via a youtube clip is like getting one's facts from wikpedia. Some quick replies as I'm out the door.
Anyway, regarding the AI: in a nutshell they hunt better. I.e., no silly peeling off a convoy at regular intervals to leave the convoy flank completely exposed ala SH3, the AOD escorts are placed and spaced correctly around the convoys, and when submerged they're an actual threat vs. the SH3 escorts cream puffs.

I could go on and on but as I said earlier; if one is interested in the Battle of the Atlantic subject, one really owes it to themselves to try AOD (cd-rom version; not caod) and see for themselves. Easier than trying to explain it. But you'll have to change your tactics from SH3 to be more realistic to (maybe) survive.

I'm always surprised at the number of SH3 players and modders that haven't ever played AOD.


Regarding missing features, etc., the same advice above applies; try AOD. But just a few are: Escorts use asdic as their primary search equipment as was historically the case, unlike SH3's only using it after hydrophone contact. Moonlight has an affect. Convoy noise can hide your boat when under the convoy. Depth charge noise masking. (though with the weak SH3 escorts, these two aren't really needed in SH3) Hunter/killer groups that are actual hunter/killer groups that have the correct aircraft and tactics. Wolfpacks that call *you* in vs. you only being able to call them in.
Also, the AOD damage/repair model is leagues above the SH3 one.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Well, basing an opinion on anything (including SH3) via a youtube clip is like getting one's facts from wikpedia.

Sure, but I don't base my judgment only on this video, that's why I'm asking you to describe the game better.

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

if one is interested in the Battle of the Atlantic subject, one really owes it to themselves to try AOD (cd-rom version; not caod) and see for themselves. Easier than trying to explain it.

I'm always surprised at the number of SH3 players and modders that haven't ever played AOD.

Indeed, when reading your description , I really want to try it myself. I've already tried to download from internet, but it didn't work. You wrote "cd-rom version, not caod". What does "caod" mean ?

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Escorts use asdic as their primary search equipment as was historically the case, unlike SH3's only using it after hydrophone contact.

Well, that's not correct. I've finally understood that the escorts are constantly using ASDIC even before you have been detected. But when you hear a "ping", that means that the AI has just detected you. You don't hear any ping if you are not in the search pattern. And if you hear the ping, then the AI will hear it too and detect you. But indeed, you can't hear any ping before AI detects you, and you should hear it from far distance (I guess ) but not so loud...

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Sure, but I don't base my judgment only on this video, that's why I'm asking you to describe the game better.



Indeed, when reading your description , I really want to try it myself. I've already tried to download from internet, but it didn't work. You wrote "cd-rom version, not caod". What does "caod" mean ?



Well, that's not correct. I've finally understood that the escorts are constantly using ASDIC even before you have been detected. But when you hear a "ping", that means that the AI has just detected you. You don't hear any ping if you are not in the search pattern. And if you hear the ping, then the AI will hear it too and detect you. But indeed, you can't hear any ping before AI detects you, and you should hear it from far distance (I guess ) but not so loud...

CAOD (Command Aces of the Deep) was a win95 version of AOD. But it is buggy. The cd version of AOD is best for several reasons; 1. easy to install via cd. 2. Not buggy like caod. 3. Has several interesting additions on the cd; video interviews, a well done history/tactics section, etc.


Regarding SH3 and audible asdic, I have seen several claims of the "silent asdic" method but have never found any proof being provided of such.
Maybe I missed such. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

CAOD (Command Aces of the Deep) was a win95 version of AOD. But it is buggy. The cd version of AOD is best for several reasons; 1. easy to install via cd. 2. Not buggy like caod. 3. Has several interesting additions on the cd; video interviews, a well done history/tactics section, etc.

OK, thank you for the explanation.

Another question : Is it possible in AOD to go inside a convoy on the surface at night without being detected (providing that the escort is not fitted with radar of course) ?

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

OK, thank you for the explanation.

Another question : Is it possible in AOD to go inside a convoy on the surface at night without being detected (providing that the escort is not fitted with radar of course) ?

If the night is dark enough, check the moon phase and relative location. If you keep your speed low enough not to produce a visible wake. If the escorts lack radar. If you do not do something dumb like trying to use the deck gun.

With Wolfpacks out of the box in AOD, you can really exploit a pack attack before radar becomes common and spoils all of your fun.

In AOD when one escort goes after a U-Boat, the remainder redeploy to continue coverage of the convoy and this will help facilitate getting into the convoy proper. but doing so is seldom easy.

Convoy escorts will often not hunt you to destruction because they need to rejoin their convoy. Support Groups on the other hand have nothing better to do and are difficult to escape from.

-C

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

OK, thank you for the explanation.

Another question : Is it possible in AOD to go inside a convoy on the surface at night without being detected (providing that the escort is not fitted with radar of course) ?

Yes, since the convoy spacing, size, etc. is more correct. Per Randomizer's excellent post anyway. But don't forget merchants also being armed.
Also, the escorts use radar much more effectively/realistically in AOD. Wait until you have a destroyer screaming down at you at full speed and your only option is to crash dive (since they're going much faster than you) and pray.
And pay attention to aircraft; they're to be respected vs. not so much in SH3.

[Mister_M]

Thank you both of you to give more light on this old but well made game. The AI appears much better than in SH3 indeed. Back then, having only the possibility of ugly graphics, the dev's were forced to do efforts to make the game at least "interesting" (AI + historically correct)....

[l02turner]

I play single missions in SH4 and I'd like the option to extend game play past successful completion of a mission. I have had missions end abruptly after I sink a BB or other mission requirements. I'd like to be able to choose to extend the mission until i successfully evade their escorts or return to a home base.