What is an American

[les green01]

Originally Posted by August

Izzat a burning cross?

But those are the wrong lyrics. The right lyrics to that song are:

Oh we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,
And we'll rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom.


The Union forever, hurrah! boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And although he may be poor, he shall never be a slave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!


It sounds so much better don't you think? To me lyrics like "Although he may be poor, he shall never be a slave" is powerful stuff.

i like the southern version better now i'm going have to listen to johnny horton johnny reb

[August]

Originally Posted by les green01

i like the southern version better now i'm going have to listen to johnny horton johnny reb

Well you might like this then although some of the lyrics may be disconcerting!

[August]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Probably English, German, Polish, African, Spanish, Mexican...and so on. Now just the Heinz 57 Variety Ketchup.

Unfortunately it seems that our melting pot has become pressurized and is getting ready to blow up.

[les green01]

ill check the video out the music on both sides was good i had family that fought on both sides including a great great grandpappy that was killed for the unioni'm a Heinz 57 with the native american in me and the irish

[vienna]

I think someone from the US has got to go and visit a country or area where the freedoms and perks of being a US citizen are unknown in order to fully appreciate what a great country this is; in 1965, I spent the summer in a Central American country run by an iron-handed dictatorship and the experience made a life-long impression on me and also gave me a life-long appreciation for my homeland of the US, flaws and all; the dictatorship mas propped up by the US government (the CIA was using that country as the base for its Caribbean/Latin America base of operations after they were booted out of Cuba by Castro); there was a lot of antipathy towards the US as a result, particularly in the capitol city; the only real advantage we Americanos had was that the government ordered the military, who also functioned as the police force, to keep hands off Americans; there was one time I was walking through the capitol with a guy from the house where we were staying; we were approached by a trio of Guardias (who, by the way, were always in full battle dress and heavily armed); since I was only 14 years old at the time, they turned their attention to the adult with me and demanded his ID papers; the guy gave the Guardias his papers, and then one of the Guardias demanded my papers; I responded, in English, that I did not have any papers; the look of shock on the Gaurdias face was priceless; one, who spoke some English, asked "Are you an American?", and I responded "Yes."; there was a rapid terse whispering among the Guardias and they gave the ID papers back to the adult I was with, turned and left in a bit of a foul mood; the guy I was with explained the Guardias had a habit of demanding ID papers, getting them , and then claiming the person had no papers, but for a fee/ransom, they would sell the ID papers back, otherwise they would jail the person, and, if you did not have the money, or what they considered enough money, to buy back your own ID, they would very most likely beat you before they arrested you; the guy I was walking with said, if I had not been with him when the Guardia showed up, and the fact I was an American, a taboo for them, he would have probably been at the mercy of those thugs...


While I was there, there were also a couple of other incidents I witnessed...

There was one nationwide newspaper in the country and its editor was highly critical of the Dictator and would often draw down the wrath of the Dictator or his cronies; one day as I was walking through the central plaza, I saw a large crowd moving towards the newspaper building; it seemed the Dictator did not like the newspaper's latest editorial and had dispatched troops in APCs to bring in the editor for a "discussion"; as soon as the citizens got wind of the troops approaching the building, they massed and formed a human barrier around the building and defied the troops to try and seize the editor; after a short standoff, the troops pulled back and retreated...

The second was something that occurred just around the corner from the home we were staying in; there was a hotel around the corner of the block and an opposition candidate for President was holding a meeting there; Guardia troops, in APCs, one with a small cannon mounted, showed up outside the hotel, and, with the cannon aimed at the room where the candidate was holed up, 'requested' him to come out and join them on a trip to meet with the Dictator...

The newspaper its citizen defenders wasn't clobbered by the Guardia troops mainly because the Dictator knew the US government would only tolerate so much and he needed their power to prop him up against his adversaries; the same applied to the Presidential candidate 'invited' to the meeting; the US liked the idea of a token 'opposition' so the image and false-front of some sort of democracy was maintained for the US taxpayers back home, so every time the candidate was arrested, he was eventually released, more or less unharmed, because the Dictator knew it was in his best interests not to rile up up his main support; the rather vexing thing was no one was ever going to oust the Dictator via an election, since he had rigged each and every election raised against him; even when there was US pressure for him to allow 'free' elections, he merely had a puppet run in his in his stead, again rigging the election so his guy handily won and the Dictator continued to hold the reins, behind the scenes; the US was fully aware of the blatant charades, but as long as the US Cia maintained its foothold in that region of the world, with little to no interference, they turned a blind eye...


Its like that old saw: sometimes you don't know what you've got til its gone, or til you see what not have something, like freedom, is really like...




<O>

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by vienna

I think someone from the US has got to go and visit a country or area where the freedoms and perks of being a US citizen are unknown in order to fully appreciate what a great country this is; in 1965, I spent the summer in a Central American country run by an iron-handed dictatorship and the experience made a life-long impression on me and also gave me a life-long appreciation for my homeland of the US, flaws and all; the dictatorship mas propped up by the US government (the CIA was using that country as the base for its Caribbean/Latin America base of operations after they were booted out of Cuba by Castro); there was a lot of antipathy towards the US as a result, particularly in the capitol city; the only real advantage we Americanos had was that the government ordered the military, who also functioned as the police force, to keep hands off Americans; there was one time I was walking through the capitol with a guy from the house where we were staying; we were approached by a trio of Guardias (who, by the way, were always in full battle dress and heavily armed); since I was only 14 years old at the time, they turned their attention to the adult with me and demanded his ID papers; the guy gave the Guardias his papers, and then one of the Guardias demanded my papers; I responded, in English, that I did not have any papers; the look of shock on the Gaurdias face was priceless; one, who spoke some English, asked "Are you an American?", and I responded "Yes."; there was a rapid terse whispering among the Guardias and they gave the ID papers back to the adult I was with, turned and left in a bit of a foul mood; the guy I was with explained the Guardias had a habit of demanding ID papers, getting them , and then claiming the person had no papers, but for a fee/ransom, they would sell the ID papers back, otherwise they would jail the person, and, if you did not have the money, or what they considered enough money, to buy back your own ID, they would very most likely beat you before they arrested you; the guy I was walking with said, if I had not been with him when the Guardia showed up, and the fact I was an American, a taboo for them, he would have probably been at the mercy of those thugs...


While I was there, there were also a couple of other incidents I witnessed...

There was one nationwide newspaper in the country and its editor was highly critical of the Dictator and would often draw down the wrath of the Dictator or his cronies; one day as I was walking through the central plaza, I saw a large crowd moving towards the newspaper building; it seemed the Dictator did not like the newspaper's latest editorial and had dispatched troops in APCs to bring in the editor for a "discussion"; as soon as the citizens got wind of the troops approaching the building, they massed and formed a human barrier around the building and defied the troops to try and seize the editor; after a short standoff, the troops pulled back and retreated...

The second was something that occurred just around the corner from the home we were staying in; there was a hotel around the corner of the block and an opposition candidate for President was holding a meeting there; Guardia troops, in APCs, one with a small cannon mounted, showed up outside the hotel, and, with the cannon aimed at the room where the candidate was holed up, 'requested' him to come out and join them on a trip to meet with the Dictator...

The newspaper its citizen defenders wasn't clobbered by the Guardia troops mainly because the Dictator knew the US government would only tolerate so much and he needed their power to prop him up against his adversaries; the same applied to the Presidential candidate 'invited' to the meeting; the US liked the idea of a token 'opposition' so the image and false-front of some sort of democracy was maintained for the US taxpayers back home, so every time the candidate was arrested, he was eventually released, more or less unharmed, because the Dictator knew it was in his best interests not to rile up up his main support; the rather vexing thing was no one was ever going to oust the Dictator via an election, since he had rigged each and every election raised against him; even when there was US pressure for him to allow 'free' elections, he merely had a puppet run in his in his stead, again rigging the election so his guy handily won and the Dictator continued to hold the reins, behind the scenes; the US was fully aware of the blatant charades, but as long as the US Cia maintained its foothold in that region of the world, with little to no interference, they turned a blind eye...


Its like that old saw: sometimes you don't know what you've got til its gone, or til you see what not have something, like freedom, is really like...




<O>

This is certainly the case. I've been to many different nations and have lived outside the US. *Many* of the people decrying America as a systematically racist country fail to see that it just isn't so.

For example, when a college student-turned-activist decries the US as racist, it's done from the point of privilege of sometime afforded the opportunity to attend a college or university in the first place. If they are a minority, they're ignoring that they possibly had a leg up due to affirmative action or diversity quotas allowing them to attend while having a lower standardized test score or a lower grade point average that would prevent white or asian students from gaining admittance in the first place. And as they are attending that college getting their heads filled with Marxist theory, they go out and claim that Marxist dictatorships treat their people better without ever having set foot in a Marxist dictatorship *as an anonymous tourist rather than a coddled activist receiving the red carpet treatment* to live in such a country.

They want equality of opportunity to be equality is outcome instead of actually gaining based upon their own merits.

[August]

Yeah traveling overseas, especially living there, is an eye opening experience for most Americans. Most of us have no clue how good we really have it here. This is why I have so little patience with calls to tear it all down because our country is somehow intrinsically and fatally flawed.

If our country is flawed then it's flawed less than anywhere else i've been. We talk about "fundamentally transforming" it at our peril.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by August

Yeah traveling overseas, especially living there, is an eye opening experience for most Americans. Most of us have no clue how good we really have it here. This is why I have so little patience with calls to tear it all down because our country is somehow intrinsically and fatally flawed.

If our country is flawed then it's flawed less than anywhere else i've been. We talk about "fundamentally transforming" it at our peril.

What we really need is to go backwards into an idealization of 1950s public decency. I'm not taking about the false morality espoused by the political class, crony capitalism, and pre-MLK segregation; rather, teaching that the US is the greatest free nation on earth, that *you* control how successful you will be, and that believing in religious freedom, two-parent traditional marriage-based families, and moral behavior is inherently good.

You want to smoke dope? Fine. Just don't do it while driving. You want to engage in alternate lifestyles or deviant sexual behavior with another consenting adult(s)? Go right ahead as long as you do it in your own home. You want to be offended by something someone else says? You have that right.

What you don't have the right to do is demand that people engaged in traditional behaviors stop doing them because they offend you, nor do you have the right to demand that they accept (rather than tolerate) alternative behaviors and lifestyles; you don't have the right to demand that your criminal behavior be excused because of some -ism; you don't have the right to take advantage of naive people to build your personal wealth under the guise of activism. You don't have the right to influence government at the expense of the citizenry to continue your crony capitalist military-insustrial complex (eminent domain under shady pretenses, having lobbying firms actually writing new laws, etc.)

[vienna]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

This is certainly the case. I've been to many different nations and have lived outside the US. *Many* of the people decrying America as a systematically racist country fail to see that it just isn't so.

For example, when a college student-turned-activist decries the US as racist, it's done from the point of privilege of sometime afforded the opportunity to attend a college or university in the first place. If they are a minority, they're ignoring that they possibly had a leg up due to affirmative action or diversity quotas allowing them to attend while having a lower standardized test score or a lower grade point average that would prevent white or asian students from gaining admittance in the first place. And as they are attending that college getting their heads filled with Marxist theory, they go out and claim that Marxist dictatorships treat their people better without ever having set foot in a Marxist dictatorship *as an anonymous tourist rather than a coddled activist receiving the red carpet treatment* to live in such a country.

They want equality of opportunity to be equality is outcome instead of actually gaining based upon their own merits.

Then there's the other side of the coin: privileged white students who get into colleges and universities for reasons that are not academically based, like: they are 'legacy' admissions because they have a prominent parent or other family member who was a prior alumnus; they have social connections that allow them to go to the head of the line (the old boy/old money/country club network); they have parents who donate heavily to the particular college of choice; they have parents who will willingly pay bribes to get their kid admitted; there is even the 'white heavy' network of prep schools and the like whose graduates get preferential admissions treatment over equally academically qualified applicants who didn't come from the 'right type' of prep/high school, etc. ...

Remember, Affirmative Action in college admissions didn't really become an issue until the Vietnam War when it became obvious minorities, due to the very nature of college admissions at that time, were being edged out of admission by the increased influx of white males who suddenly became 'academically incentivized' when their draft eligibility came up on turning 18 yo.; even blue collar guys, who might have otherwise foregone college in favor of working in jobs not needing degrees, but who otherwise had the grades to get into a college, began to apply for admission when the specter of "!A" loomed in their future; and parents, particularly fathers who had served through the hardships of WW2, were inclined to spend the money to defer their sons from possibly going to Vietnam...

Then there are the other, broader inequities in college admissions, like athletic admissions that completely ignore academic requirements and norms solely based on the physical abilities of the players of their particular sports; it is galling that an academically gifted student, who does actually meet academic admission standards, with no athletic prowess, often has to get themself in deep student loan debt while a 'dumbed down' jock can get admitted with no academic qualifications, can a full ride scholarship and then get 'snowflake' classes to attend and 'pass' once in college, simply because they can run fast, throw a ball, or some other such nonsense; I'm not saying athletes shouldn't get scholarships or admissions, just that the standard, in any any academic institution of higher learning, should be applied equitably for all students who apply...


At the time I graduated from high school, in 1969, Affirmative Action was a new concept in regards to education, as were readily available student loans; regardless of how one feels about Affirmative Action, it is still a highly visible example of the greatness of the US in that this nation is prepared to address inequities in a proactive manner rather than settle for a stagnant, deleterious 'status quo'; it might take us a while or it might be a bit painful for the 'haves' to share with the 'have-nots', but, owning up to failings and/or inequities and then having the guts and resolve to fix them is a major part of the US ideal...







<O>

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by vienna

Then there's the other side of the coin: privileged white students who get into colleges and universities for reasons that are not academically based, like: they are 'legacy' admissions because they have a prominent parent or other family member who was a prior alumnus; they have social connections that allow them to go to the head of the line (the old boy/old money/country club network); they have parents who donate heavily to the particular college of choice; they have parents who will willingly pay bribes to get their kid admitted; there is even the 'white heavy' network of prep schools and the like whose graduates get preferential admissions treatment over equally academically qualified applicants who didn't come from the 'right type' of prep/high school, etc. ...

Remember, Affirmative Action in college admissions didn't really become an issue until the Vietnam War when it became obvious minorities, due to the very nature of college admissions at that time, were being edged out of admission by the increased influx of white males who suddenly became 'academically incentivized' when their draft eligibility came up on turning 18 yo.; even blue collar guys, who might have otherwise foregone college in favor of working in jobs not needing degrees, but who otherwise had the grades to get into a college, began to apply for admission when the specter of "!A" loomed in their future; and parents, particularly fathers who had served through the hardships of WW2, were inclined to spend the money to defer their sons from possibly going to Vietnam...

Then there are the other, broader inequities in college admissions, like athletic admissions that completely ignore academic requirements and norms solely based on the physical abilities of the players of their particular sports; it is galling that an academically gifted student, who does actually meet academic admission standards, with no athletic prowess, often has to get themself in deep student loan debt while a 'dumbed down' jock can get admitted with no academic qualifications, can a full ride scholarship and then get 'snowflake' classes to attend and 'pass' once in college, simply because they can run fast, throw a ball, or some other such nonsense; I'm not saying athletes shouldn't get scholarships or admissions, just that the standard, in any any academic institution of higher learning, should be applied equitably for all students who apply...


At the time I graduated from high school, in 1969, Affirmative Action was a new concept in regards to education, as were readily available student loans; regardless of how one feels about Affirmative Action, it is still a highly visible example of the greatness of the US in that this nation is prepared to address inequities in a proactive manner rather than settle for a stagnant, deleterious 'status quo'; it might take us a while or it might be a bit painful for the 'haves' to share with the 'have-nots', but, owning up to failings and/or inequities and then having the guts and resolve to fix them is a major part of the US ideal...







<O>

No doubt. As the son of working class parents who themselves didn't go to college, having to "settle" for a large state university instead of an ivyleague because my scores were good enough that, had I been a minority candidate, I'd have gotten a full ride scholarship. But because I was white but not privileged, I wasn't accepted.

Of course there is an unlevel field - a completely level field is a lowered set of expectations. That the field allows everyone to apply is the important part. Did I mention that I later was offered the opportunity to get my graduate degrees at multiple ivy leagues because of my own hard work and application of my skills in industry?

Another anecdote. One of the smartest guys I know started out as (his description) a dope smoking white trash redneck. Navy enlistment filled by applying himself, promotion to CPO very early in his career, followed by getting his degree, being commissioned as an officer, and then being invited to study at MIT before retiring as a LCDR and starting a 2nd career as a highly-compensated consultant to the USG. Did he go to USNA and behind an admiral? No. He went a different route that best fit his initial starting conditions. Guess what? Those admirals and government senior executive service - he commands their attention.

Is there a problem with generational wealth/privilege? Not as the initial starting point. The problem is in not dealing with those who got where they are because of that privilege who are incompetent or dangerous. You fire those people instead of promoting them. That's there only way to deal with it.

The problem is that in today's business world, there is no social strata like there was in the 50s/60s where you had guys who served under guys in WW2 now all working together with similar approaches to business, loyalty, and values. You wouldn't have a former PFC or SGT who would continue to willingly work for a manager who was a former officer who they sh!canned during the war for incompetence. Since the generation after the WW2 generation, you have management who covers right out of business school expecting a corner office and 6 figures who knows *nothing* about how to lead or understands any aspect of the business and a workforce so poorly educated they won't effectively take their concerns up the chain. As a result, we have businesses continually focused on next quarter instead of 10 years ahead. And don't get me started on government employees - nowadays, sh!t floats to the top...

[Gorpet]

I would have responded sooner, But i have these plaques in my arteries that break loose and go thru my system sometimes to my brain . They cause strokes , so it takes awhile for me to recover but never fear as long as i can control my fingers i will respond.If not my son Joshua will let you know when i've pulled my last oar. Over the years all of you have contributed to my growth as a man each every one of you from all the countries you may come from. You see im am a introvert. Professionally you would not know it, this forum has allowed me to experience peoples thoughts on times and things happening around the world Tks.

[Sean C]

All the best to you, my friend Gorpet.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Gorpet

I would have responded sooner, But i have these plaques in my arteries that break loose and go thru my system sometimes to my brain . They cause strokes , so it takes awhile for me to recover but never fear as long as i can control my fingers i will respond.If not my son Joshua will let you know when i've pulled my last oar. Over the years all of you have contributed to my growth as a man each every one of you from all the countries you may come from. You see im am a introvert. Professionally you would not know it, this forum has allowed me to experience peoples thoughts



on times and things happening around the world Tks.

I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles, Gorpet. You have things you like to do like riding your motorcycle. Let those things help pull you forward and give yourself thing to look forward to in your recovery. With regards to growth, you touched on one of the greatest strengths of Subsim.



It's a world wide community and we have all learned from one another.



I wish you all the best on your health. Stay safe on your motorcycle.

[les green01]

Originally Posted by Gorpet

I would have responded sooner, But i have these plaques in my arteries that break loose and go thru my system sometimes to my brain . They cause strokes , so it takes awhile for me to recover but never fear as long as i can control my fingers i will respond.If not my son Joshua will let you know when i've pulled my last oar. Over the years all of you have contributed to my growth as a man each every one of you from all the countries you may come from. You see im am a introvert. Professionally you would not know it, this forum has allowed me to experience peoples thoughts on times and things happening around the world Tks.

sorry to hear about your health problems had mine last summer i was so tired,throwing up then one day eye sight got so blurry couldn't see hand in front of your face dad had to lead me around like a little puppy dog for six months finaly they gave me blood test when it came in the 98 year old family doc told me to come in then told me your blood sugar the highest i have ever seen now i dont even need to wear glasses i been on many web sites and this one is the best

[Gorpet]

March 1st 2019 I had a stroke in my sleep, didn't know it till the alarm went off for work and found my left arm was paralyzed. Off to the hospital i went and 3 days later they cut my neck open and cleared a blocked artery on the right side 85% blocked. Mowing the yard that evening increased my blood pressure which started blowing off microscopic pieces of plaque that went to my brain.And stopped the blood flow.Fast forward 6mos to September i regained the use of my arm but the company i was working for informed me their ins. would not cover me driving any co. Vehicle. And the state of Florida suspended my Commercial Driver license. My employment with this company was over and any future driving for employment sank into the abyss. Well i will hang. these Love providers Are making life on this planet