[WIP] "Lochinvar" Clyde puffer

[Oby]

Holy smoke, this is fantastic. Gap, Kapuhy, Rosomaha, thanks for your efforts of keeping the game 'above water' and interesting. Incredibly cool.


It is often forgotten how much of a role these small vessels played during the war.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Good idea, but I suggest extending the scope of such a thread to game-related plans and 3D models in general, what do you think?

Game-related as in this game or games in general? First is exactly what I had in mind, second would be a bit off topic for SH5 Mod Workshop forum.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Oby

Holy smoke, this is fantastic. Gap, Kapuhy, Rosomaha, thanks for your efforts of keeping the game 'above water' and interesting. Incredibly cool.

Thank you too Oby

Originally Posted by Oby

It is often forgotten how much of a role these small vessels played during the war.

I have no information of Clyde puffers lost due to U-boat attacks, nonetheless those small boats actually played an "official" role in the Battle of the Atlantic since a number of them was requisitioned and impressed in Royal Navy service as engined naval lighters. Moreover, between 1942 and 1945 a class of RN auxiliary vessels, the Victualling Inshore Craft was purpose-built after the plans of two typical puffers.

For more on that, the following website has a list of puffers and VICs with short stories and basic specs:

https://puffersandvics.org/

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Game-related as in this game or games in general? First is exactly what I had in mind, second would be a bit off topic for SH5 Mod Workshop forum.

SH-related of course

the possible subcategories that come to my mind are: ships/boats, submarines, aircraft, armaments (guns, mortars, racks, throwers, etc.), ordnance (bombs, depth charges, torpedos, rockets, mines, etc.), U-boat equipment, beacons (lighthouses, day marks, buoys, etc.), buildings and landscape features (ports, towers, churches, bridges, coastal defense emplacements, rocks, etc.)

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

T
SH-related of course

the possible subcategories that come to my mind are: ships/boats, submarines, aircraft, armaments (guns, mortars, racks, throwers, etc.), ordnance (bombs, depth charges, torpedos, rockets, mines, etc.), U-boat equipment, beacons (lighthouses, day marks, buoys, etc.), buildings and landscape features (ports, towers, churches, bridges, coastal defense emplacements, rocks, etc.)

That's exactly what I had in mind, making one place where new or returning modder could find both information on what is currently being done and resources/guides that will be useful in creating new assets (be it ships, planes, equipment or other things).

I'm a little short on time until Christmas, but then I'll try to compile links to resources I've found, and whatever useful hints I've learned on making SH5 units.

[tonschk]

Very nice and well done boat Gap , accurate and detailed thank you very much

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

That's exactly what I had in mind, making one place where new or returning modder could find both information on what is currently being done and resources/guides that will be useful in creating new assets (be it ships, planes, equipment or other things).

I'm a little short on time until Christmas, but then I'll try to compile links to resources I've found, and whatever useful hints I've learned on making SH5 units.

Okay, in the meanwhile we could prepare an idex of all the SH5-relate 3D stuff in the making, inviting other modders to post their updates there

Originally Posted by tonschk

Very nice and well done boat Gap , accurate and detailed thank you very much

Thank you too for your encouragement mate

[Rosomaha]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

You can do it (GrannyDamageDecals controller that is responsible for 3D holes has an option to assign interior mesh that will be visible through holes), though I don't recall any ship - modded or stock - using this possibility (as well as second option to set the hole shape that shells will tear in a hull - all ships have this field blank and use default holes).

3d Holes-Decals is always a combination of two models (hole shape + hole model): these are objects from the files: Damage_Object.GR2 + Damage_Room.GR2, and no others.
Just my guess: this functionality was not completed by the SH5 developers as planned. Although, the assumption is that a certain variety of “Holes” was planned for different objects-materials. After all, in the Damages folder there are several more files (eventually useless) besides Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. For example, "Decals" for ice, at the same time, Icebergs do not have a controller for "Decals", and as a result, visible holes. If you even add it to .sim, you will see all the same familiar holes from Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. It looks like they are hardwired to the controller's operation in grannyloader.dll

Another depressing point that upsets me is that in SH5 3D, the holes on the ships disappear, this always manifests itself in ships with the hull breaking apart, after a critical destruction with breaking. Even in the old SH-4, half of the ships went to the bottom with visible damage that they received and it looked authentic.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

3d Holes-Decals is always a combination of two models (hole shape + hole model): these are objects from the files: Damage_Object.GR2 + Damage_Room.GR2, and no others.
Just my guess: this functionality was not completed by the SH5 developers as planned. Although, the assumption is that a certain variety of “Holes” was planned for different objects-materials. After all, in the Damages folder there are several more files (eventually useless) besides Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. For example, "Decals" for ice, at the same time, Icebergs do not have a controller for "Decals", and as a result, visible holes. If you even add it to .sim, you will see all the same familiar holes from Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. It looks like they are hardwired to the controller's operation in grannyloader.dll

Another depressing point that upsets me is that in SH5 3D, the holes on the ships disappear, this always manifests itself in ships with the hull breaking apart, after a critical destruction with breaking. Even in the old SH-4, half of the ships went to the bottom with visible damage that they received and it looked authentic.

I have not the game installed right now, so I can't check the files and settings you are mentioning. I will look closely into them as soon as I install back the game.

In the meanwhile, for uniformity with stock game, I would like to know is: do boats of a size comparable to "my" puffer include any basic 3D compartment as part of the main model? I am not too anxious to add any detailed interior, but I wouldn't like my model to look like an empty paper boat when her hull is damaged by a shell and, rather than metal compartments, you can see sea and sky through the holes

[gap]

Hi guys,

in the past weeks I have been collecting information on WWII-era puffers. I have identified 78 private-owned 20-m puffers and I managed to find funnel colors and house flag used by some of their owners. I would like to add those features, but before I do that I would like to hear from the most knowledgeables on naval history among you (Sailorsteve, Iambecomelife, are you there? ).

My doubts are:

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

From the little information I have, house flags could be hoisted on the main mast but apparently their usage is not subject to any strict regulation. My question is: how commonly they are used and how realistic would have been for a vessel to fly one in wartime, when it vivid colors could have unnecessarily given up own position to the enemy?

[Muckenberg]

Good day
I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to your ship. i really like your SH5 mods.
In my opinion, I would say that as the war continued, all the ships that served for the war effort were disguised. I'd say it was for their own safety.
But of course I can get confused.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by gap

Hi guys,

in the past weeks I have been collecting information on WWII-era puffers. I have identified 78 private-owned 20-m puffers and I managed to find funnel colors and house flag used by some of their owners. I would like to add those features, but before I do that I would like to hear from the most knowledgeables on naval history among you (Sailorsteve, Iambecomelife, are you there? ).

My doubts are:

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

From the little information I have, house flags could be hoisted on the main mast but apparently their usage is not subject to any strict regulation. My question is: how commonly they are used and how realistic would have been for a vessel to fly one in wartime, when it vivid colors could have unnecessarily given up own position to the enemy?

I don't think they were repainted as they were considered indispensibly expendible and 100 were ordered built: Clearly the keels tended be rust red (I just painted my cousins 40' Two masted steel hull ketch that a year ago-nuthin good goes outta style) https://puffersandvics.org/VIC_index.htm <viewed each on case by case basis In browsing the predominantly black and white photos during or near the end of WWII even the the B/W pics show no attempt at camouflage-the pilot house and stack are different from the black hull and the predominantly rust red keel colors: ie VIC 23 in 1942; just launched:
That said: the longer 85 ft VIC 63 is described in this photo as still wearing her wartime grey. <keel shows shade variation to hull

The puffers were typically divided into "shorehead" (or coastal) boats, with a maximum length of 66 ft, and "outside" (sea-going) boats, of 80 ft. The shorehead boats were within the dimensions of the Forth & Clyde Canal sealocks, making it possible for them to enter the inland waterway system, though the outside boats were more suited to the Atlantic conditions off the west coast.

Bottom line: the 66.8 Ft ones with safer shorehead 'inshore canal/waterway duty' need no camo; the 85 ft larger ones had wartime gray?? I cannot find any puffer sunk by enemy action...

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

Well, some time ago when I gathered data to model my coasters I recall finding this:

Peacetime

War

That's Earl Sigurd, cute Orkney steamer not much larger than puffers. Unfortulately I have no actual photo of wartime version, but according to German modeling site it seems to have been repainted into grey camouflage. Perhaps the site owner could be contacted for sources...

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Well, some time ago when I gathered data to model my coasters I recall finding this:

Peacetime

War

That's Earl Sigurd, cute Orkney steamer not much larger than puffers. Unfortulately I have no actual photo of wartime version, but according to German modeling site it seems to have been repainted into grey camouflage. Perhaps the site owner could be contacted for sources...

Model in Gray: although I prefer this one also in navy gray 1942:

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

In the meanwhile, for uniformity with stock game, I would like to know is: do boats of a size comparable to "my" puffer include any basic 3D compartment as part of the main model? I am not too anxious to add any detailed interior, but I wouldn't like my model to look like an empty paper boat when her hull is damaged by a shell and, rather than metal compartments, you can see sea and sky through the holes

Hi Gap,

Only puffer-sized stock model is Coastal Boat:



It doesn't have any interior modeled and does not have cracks / possibility for the hull to split.

I did model simple hull cracks and extremely basic interior in Fairmile, mostly because I had to base it on NRTW (Armed Trawler) template anyway to have enough meshes for twin-screw and twin-rudder vessel - so I figured I can add hull breaking too.

In short, it's your choice but even without interior what you have is way more detailed already than comparably sized stock model.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by gap

Hi guys,

in the past weeks I have been collecting information on WWII-era puffers. I have identified 78 private-owned 20-m puffers and I managed to find funnel colors and house flag used by some of their owners. I would like to add those features, but before I do that I would like to hear from the most knowledgeables on naval history among you (Sailorsteve, Iambecomelife, are you there? ).

My doubts are:

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

From the little information I have, house flags could be hoisted on the main mast but apparently their usage is not subject to any strict regulation. My question is: how commonly they are used and how realistic would have been for a vessel to fly one in wartime, when it vivid colors could have unnecessarily given up own position to the enemy?

I agree with Aktungbby. Certain small coastal ships were less likely to be camo'd than oceangoing freighters, so I think you can get away with having them in civilian colors sometimes. Maybe give them a mix of camo & civilian schemes.