Newbie questions: where to search and how to avoid active sonnar

cuervo111 · 06-18-06, 10:31 AM

Hello all. I have been playing around here for some time but this is the first time I post.

I'm starting to learn DW. It's great and very challenging. I have two questions.

1. Mission: SOSUS Handover.
I have read the manual and the great P3 Operation manual by Oneshot. I know understand different buoys and techniques to find a sub. However in this mission I find it difficult to find the subs without cheating (show truth). I managed to find and sink one sub, however when I get to the other cable area, I dont know where to search. It's several hours after the beginning of the mission and I dont know exact point of detection, course and speed of the sub. I try to search it using MAD/SAD without success. How can you figure out where is the sub?

2. Mission: Tokyo harbor cruise
This is a fast question: How can I avoid being detected by the enemy surface vessel? I know I can go very slowly to avoid being detected by his passive sonar, but I have no idea of what I can do where I hear their pings. I try to go as deep as I can and to present a low profile bearing to the source of the ping. however the only thing I do is approaching the enemy. Is there any thing I can do or if I get pinged Im dead?

Thanks for your help!

OneShot · 06-18-06, 12:25 PM

About SOSUS Handover, this one is kinda tough at first. The first sub is comparable easy to find. Now for the second, if I remember right, sometimes the 2nd sub won't spawn but the mission will be over after the first one ... still given the 2nd sub is out to be hunted ... climb to HIGH altitude and go max speed ... that will give you an additional 100kts speed (460 kts or so instead of 360 kts at low/mid altitude) thus you will be at the other place faster. Now you have to break out your calculator ... take the line and the time where the sub was last seen as a base (do they give you an estimate on the speed of the sub? if so all the better) now calculate the distance the sub could have covered in a straight line with 10kts and 15kts speed in the time since the last sighting and your arrival in the area. That gives you 2 circles ... Max and Min distance for the sub. Now you can go the cheap way and drop a line of buoys right between those circles or you drop a line on either distance and if necessary make a third line in the middle (again). In most of the cases you should now be able to aquire the sub. Once you have him on one buoy (or more) don't let him slip away.

cuervo111 · 06-18-06, 01:22 PM

Thank you Oneshot!

The problem is that I get very low ranges with buoys. I'm trying with deep VLAD.

However I'll give it a try again using the two circles you suggested. I'll report back

OneShot · 06-19-06, 03:32 AM

Take some BT buoys along and check the SSP in the area ... depending on where the layer and the sub is (respectively) you have to choose your buoy. For example a Layer at 500ft with the sub at 400ft screams for DIFAR (90/400ft) and would rule out the use of VLAD (800/1200ft depths) because your buoys would be on the other side of the layer.

Kapitan · 06-19-06, 09:46 AM

Personal under ice dont get much active sonar, but i normaly move up and down in layers.

Wim Libaers · 06-19-06, 02:19 PM

If I remember correctly, I set buoy fields on both likely areas, and then went high (longer line of sight to keep contact with the fields) patrolling between the fields to scan each buoy. You can't keep every buoy in range at all times, but if you move around fast enough and have more than one line with overlapping ranges, he shouldn't be able to cross the line faster than you can rescan both fields. Do remember that buoys will fail after some time, and prepare to throw new ones when needed. A likely problem when you overestimate their speed (you need to make a guess in the beginning, as they crossed the lines some time ago, but overestimating is better than underestimating, as that could mean you really lose them).

06-18-06, 10:31 AM	#1
cuervo111 Watch Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 22 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Newbie questions: where to search and how to avoid active sonnar Hello all. I have been playing around here for some time but this is the first time I post. I'm starting to learn DW. It's great and very challenging. I have two questions. 1. Mission: SOSUS Handover. I have read the manual and the great P3 Operation manual by Oneshot. I know understand different buoys and techniques to find a sub. However in this mission I find it difficult to find the subs without cheating (show truth). I managed to find and sink one sub, however when I get to the other cable area, I dont know where to search. It's several hours after the beginning of the mission and I dont know exact point of detection, course and speed of the sub. I try to search it using MAD/SAD without success. How can you figure out where is the sub? 2. Mission: Tokyo harbor cruise This is a fast question: How can I avoid being detected by the enemy surface vessel? I know I can go very slowly to avoid being detected by his passive sonar, but I have no idea of what I can do where I hear their pings. I try to go as deep as I can and to present a low profile bearing to the source of the ping. however the only thing I do is approaching the enemy. Is there any thing I can do or if I get pinged Im dead? Thanks for your help!

06-18-06, 12:25 PM	#2
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	About SOSUS Handover, this one is kinda tough at first. The first sub is comparable easy to find. Now for the second, if I remember right, sometimes the 2nd sub won't spawn but the mission will be over after the first one ... still given the 2nd sub is out to be hunted ... climb to HIGH altitude and go max speed ... that will give you an additional 100kts speed (460 kts or so instead of 360 kts at low/mid altitude) thus you will be at the other place faster. Now you have to break out your calculator ... take the line and the time where the sub was last seen as a base (do they give you an estimate on the speed of the sub? if so all the better) now calculate the distance the sub could have covered in a straight line with 10kts and 15kts speed in the time since the last sighting and your arrival in the area. That gives you 2 circles ... Max and Min distance for the sub. Now you can go the cheap way and drop a line of buoys right between those circles or you drop a line on either distance and if necessary make a third line in the middle (again). In most of the cases you should now be able to aquire the sub. Once you have him on one buoy (or more) don't let him slip away. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

06-19-06, 03:32 AM	#4
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Take some BT buoys along and check the SSP in the area ... depending on where the layer and the sub is (respectively) you have to choose your buoy. For example a Layer at 500ft with the sub at 400ft screams for DIFAR (90/400ft) and would rule out the use of VLAD (800/1200ft depths) because your buoys would be on the other side of the layer. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

06-19-06, 09:46 AM	#5
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Personal under ice dont get much active sonar, but i normaly move up and down in layers. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

06-18-06, 01:22 PM	#3
cuervo111 Watch Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 22 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Thank you Oneshot! The problem is that I get very low ranges with buoys. I'm trying with deep VLAD. However I'll give it a try again using the two circles you suggested. I'll report back

06-19-06, 02:19 PM	#6
Wim Libaers Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Flanders Posts: 569 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	If I remember correctly, I set buoy fields on both likely areas, and then went high (longer line of sight to keep contact with the fields) patrolling between the fields to scan each buoy. You can't keep every buoy in range at all times, but if you move around fast enough and have more than one line with overlapping ranges, he shouldn't be able to cross the line faster than you can rescan both fields. Do remember that buoys will fail after some time, and prepare to throw new ones when needed. A likely problem when you overestimate their speed (you need to make a guess in the beginning, as they crossed the lines some time ago, but overestimating is better than underestimating, as that could mean you really lose them).