Russian Politics Thread

Jimbuna · 06-26-19, 10:14 AM

We already have a UK, US and German threads so here is the Russian one.

Please remain courteous and polite toward contributors or failing that don't forget the rules of this forum.

Skybird · 06-26-19, 10:27 AM

Vodka...! In exactly these glasses!

ikalugin · 06-26-19, 10:28 AM

Well I guess I can look on the bright side - I can post all the aricles and videos that I like in one place now. Such as those ones:

Mr Quatro · 06-26-19, 11:26 AM

Cheers! May we be friends till the end

Bilge_Rat · 06-26-19, 01:04 PM

So I guess this is the right place to discuss the implications of the Ivan Golunov case?

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...r-myth/591469/

That case and other similar incidents have some wondering if Putin's hold on power is slipping.

Quote:

“There is a joke popular among the Moscow elite,” Dmitry Gudkov, a Russian opposition politician, told me, “that Putin is only an avatar of the Russian secret service—he lives in a bubble, he is fed by the system, and he cannot control it any longer.”

thoughts?

Sailor Steve · 06-26-19, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Well I guess I can look on the bright side - I can post all the aricles and videos that I like in one place now. Such as those ones:

The bright side for me is getting to see what interests Russians about their own system. It will be awhile before I can watch them in their entirety, but thanks for posting those.

Catfish · 06-26-19, 03:06 PM

Well, i took all this time and watched the first of those videos with Mr Pozner, and i found myself agreeing to some of his points alright. Let's say he almost "got me" until the last question, about the poisoning. There were multiple cases, just to remind.. body language, he does no believe what he's saying.
I found myself agreeing to lot of other points though. Very interesting and a good start i'd say, but will need time for the other videos.

Just before long i believed there could be more exchange (also students) and trade with Russia, while promoting and comparing "civilian society" in Russia during those "Petersbruger Gespraeche", but it all came to nought after the Crimea annexation.. umm ..'incident'. No dialogue, comment, let alone critic or anything was allowed by the russian participants. I was somehow indirectly involved, and i saw a lot of germans completely baffled after decades of meetings. Only talk about trade questions anymore, it was a direct backfall in cold war times.
The next will be 18th "Petersburger Dialog" 18. to 20ieth july 2019 at the Petersberg in Koenigswinter. Let us hope there will be some progress

August · 06-26-19, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Cheers! May we be friends till the end

OK I get the four to the right but what's Russian about Tuborg?

ikalugin · 06-26-19, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

So I guess this is the right place to discuss the implications of the Ivan Golunov case?
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...r-myth/591469/
That case and other similar incidents have some wondering if Putin's hold on power is slipping.
thoughts?

Gudkov lives in his own make belief world, but the bulk of the article is correct.

If I were to use an analogy (which is not entirely correct but serves the task of illustrating the point) we have a quasi feudal system, where different groups (and even different levels within the same group) operate under the own agenda and understanding of the greater Russian interests, without much cooperation (ie my vassal's vassal is not my vassal - you do not really know what subordinates of your subordinate are doing).
This leads for example to FSB backed hackers leaking Medvedev's emails, amongst many other things.

Mr Quatro · 06-26-19, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

OK I get the four to the right but what's Russian about Tuborg?

Perhaps it was based on the photographer's taste more than anything else the article had something to do with too much drinking alcohol in Russia.

ikalugin · 06-26-19, 05:39 PM

I mean it is sold/advertised in here. (I think, I don't drink beer)

ikalugin · 06-26-19, 06:00 PM

Is anyone here not aware of the 2007 Munich speech first hand (ie reading the speech itself rather than various, ehem, second hand interpretations of it)?

Catfish · 06-27-19, 03:58 AM

^ I hope most are aware, though even when those responsible heard it back then, it seems they were not listening

Quoting Wiki, ok, but the text is correct (Putin's Munich Conference of security speech):
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Speec...ecurity_Policy

No western 'politician' would clearly state points like that, explain it and make proposals. Another chance lost by the west.

Germany is of course again wiggling along between its own interests, economy, US trade interests and blunt pressure from all sides.
When i heard that speech and what followed (nothing, by the west) i had for the first time the strong impression of german (and western) political incompetence.
Again: Another chance lost by the west.

I am aware the US has its own strategies, and democracy is not the main driving interest. Wolfovitz, Cheney, the late(!) Zbigniew Brzezinski etc.. enough said.

But what could have had become of it, with a little more courtesy. Sad.

STEED · 06-30-19, 03:44 PM

I know this is not a political question but it is a Russian question. Is it true Russian drunk is vodka champagne vodka? Granted that bit of info was from the spy series Smiley's People.

ikalugin · 06-30-19, 04:10 PM

I have seen this happen, however the norm (amongst civilised people that is) is:
- not to go down in ethanol content
- not to mix differently sourced drinks

06-26-19, 10:14 AM	#1
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,678 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Russian Politics Thread We already have a UK, US and German threads so here is the Russian one. Please remain courteous and polite toward contributors or failing that don't forget the rules of this forum. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

06-26-19, 10:27 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,665 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Vodka...! In exactly these glasses! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-26-19, 10:28 AM	#3
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Well I guess I can look on the bright side - I can post all the aricles and videos that I like in one place now. Such as those ones: __________________ Grumpy as always.

06-26-19, 11:26 AM	#4
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Cheers! May we be friends till the end __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

06-26-19, 03:06 PM	#7
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,776 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Well, i took all this time and watched the first of those videos with Mr Pozner, and i found myself agreeing to some of his points alright. Let's say he almost "got me" until the last question, about the poisoning. There were multiple cases, just to remind.. body language, he does no believe what he's saying. I found myself agreeing to lot of other points though. Very interesting and a good start i'd say, but will need time for the other videos. Just before long i believed there could be more exchange (also students) and trade with Russia, while promoting and comparing "civilian society" in Russia during those "Petersbruger Gespraeche", but it all came to nought after the Crimea annexation.. umm ..'incident'. No dialogue, comment, let alone critic or anything was allowed by the russian participants. I was somehow indirectly involved, and i saw a lot of germans completely baffled after decades of meetings. Only talk about trade questions anymore, it was a direct backfall in cold war times. The next will be 18th "Petersburger Dialog" 18. to 20ieth july 2019 at the Petersberg in Koenigswinter. Let us hope there will be some progress __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

06-26-19, 05:39 PM	#11
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I mean it is sold/advertised in here. (I think, I don't drink beer) __________________ Grumpy as always.

06-26-19, 06:00 PM	#12
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Is anyone here not aware of the 2007 Munich speech first hand (ie reading the speech itself rather than various, ehem, second hand interpretations of it)? __________________ Grumpy as always.

06-27-19, 03:58 AM	#13
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,776 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ I hope most are aware, though even when those responsible heard it back then, it seems they were not listening Quoting Wiki, ok, but the text is correct (Putin's Munich Conference of security speech): https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Speec...ecurity_Policy No western 'politician' would clearly state points like that, explain it and make proposals. Another chance lost by the west. Germany is of course again wiggling along between its own interests, economy, US trade interests and blunt pressure from all sides. When i heard that speech and what followed (nothing, by the west) i had for the first time the strong impression of german (and western) political incompetence. Again: Another chance lost by the west. I am aware the US has its own strategies, and democracy is not the main driving interest. Wolfovitz, Cheney, the late(!) Zbigniew Brzezinski etc.. enough said. But what could have had become of it, with a little more courtesy. Sad. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-27-19 at 04:18 AM.*

06-30-19, 03:44 PM	#14
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I know this is not a political question but it is a Russian question. Is it true Russian drunk is vodka champagne vodka? Granted that bit of info was from the spy series Smiley's People. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

06-30-19, 04:10 PM	#15
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I have seen this happen, however the norm (amongst civilised people that is) is: - not to go down in ethanol content - not to mix differently sourced drinks __________________ Grumpy as always.