Disabled Convoy Ships

deadactionman · 05-28-06, 01:07 PM

Does anyone know the practice observed by real life convoys regarding disabled ships? Was it normal to just abandon them and press on, or was there a more compassionate protocol used? Transfer of passengers and/or cargo etc...?

The reason I ask, is that I've just disabled the two lead C2s in a large convoy and other than the usual frantic course changes, the rest of the group did nothing... not even the escorts. I was low on torpedoes so I just hung back and let the convoy slip away. As soon as possible, I surfaced and finished them off with the deck gun.

bigboywooly · 05-28-06, 01:15 PM

Well I would have done exactly the same as you did,in fact did it just the other day with 2 tankers.Waited till the convoy had sailed on then finished off with torps as weather too rough for deckgun

Cant say I know what they did for real but from what I gather first thought was to save themselves esp if the hit ship was a tanker or an ammo ship as they didnt want to be anywhere near it if it went up

As for the escorts I am not sure of their standing orders

Well had a search but cant find any standing orders
This site is a good convoy site http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ but couldnt find anything on there or the RN site

deadactionman · 05-28-06, 02:47 PM

Thanks for the link bigboywooly

JSalinger · 05-28-06, 04:04 PM

I remember reading about Convoy SC-7 and about a Dutch steamer (the Boekolo, I think) that stopped to pick up survivors...someone torpedoed it (Kretschmer or Moehle, I believe).

I'd think that ships that stopped would've been easy targets for a Kaleun eager to rack up some tonnage.

Rose · 05-28-06, 05:49 PM

Whats a good WWII book about convoys?

JSalinger · 05-28-06, 07:27 PM

I read the TimeLife book about the Battle of the Atlantic, and then there's The Destruction of Convoy P.Q. 17 by David Irving (who, coincidentally, is doing time in an Austrian jail after being convicted of being a Holocaust denier).

bigboywooly · 05-28-06, 08:03 PM

OOH that was a nasty convoy to be in.
Bet the Admiralty kicked themselves after that one
Amazing the amount of fear a couple of battleships possibly leaving port caused
That is a good convoy to read up on

http://members.tripod.com/~merchantships/contents.html
Has some good stories written by the sailors there at the time

JSalinger · 05-28-06, 08:20 PM

Also read up on SC-7...that one was an embarrassment...and then there was that tanker convoy that Georg Lassen hit...sank 7 tankers out of 10 in the convoy.

Khayman · 05-29-06, 04:59 AM

There were specific rescue ships on which the survivors would be placed, or they could even be picked and kept on escorts - as Donald Macintyre did on occasion. I seem to recall damaged ships that could still make some speed being dispatched to closer ports with an escort. I guess this would depend on the size of the escort force though. I think it was up to the escort commander really. It was dangerous to have a ship lying stationary while U-boats might be about, but some did it anyway. So I don't think it's usual for ships and their crews to be abandoned to their fate.

Some U-boat commanders considered the sinking of rescue vessels as against the rules of the sea, and didn't shoot even when they could have. Others didn't give a damn.

05-29-06, 05:27 AM

I've seen cargo ship and escort stopping by disabled ship
and staying there for some time before moving on. I guess
this happens about 3 out of 10 times.

I thought it was really cool

KeybdFlyer · 05-29-06, 08:31 PM

The very first convoy I've encountered had the same thing happen. One escort circled slowly just ahead of the crippled C2 I'd hit for quite a while then headed-off to re-join the re-grouping convoy. Nice touch that. In reality, I believe the decision whether or not to stop was left to the escort commander concerned - suggest reading "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monserrat. It's a novel, but based firmly on reality - Flower Class Corvette "Compass Rose". Well worth a read and if you can get the film based on the novel (a classic movie), do so!

05-28-06, 01:07 PM	#1
deadactionman Shore leave Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NE England Posts: 70 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Disabled Convoy Ships Does anyone know the practice observed by real life convoys regarding disabled ships? Was it normal to just abandon them and press on, or was there a more compassionate protocol used? Transfer of passengers and/or cargo etc...? The reason I ask, is that I've just disabled the two lead C2s in a large convoy and other than the usual frantic course changes, the rest of the group did nothing... not even the escorts. I was low on torpedoes so I just hung back and let the convoy slip away. As soon as possible, I surfaced and finished them off with the deck gun. __________________ 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

05-28-06, 01:15 PM	#2
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Disabled Well I would have done exactly the same as you did,in fact did it just the other day with 2 tankers.Waited till the convoy had sailed on then finished off with torps as weather too rough for deckgun Cant say I know what they did for real but from what I gather first thought was to save themselves esp if the hit ship was a tanker or an ammo ship as they didnt want to be anywhere near it if it went up As for the escorts I am not sure of their standing orders Well had a search but cant find any standing orders This site is a good convoy site http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ but couldnt find anything on there or the RN site Last edited by bigboywooly; 05-28-06 at 02:15 PM.

05-28-06, 02:47 PM	#3
deadactionman Shore leave Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NE England Posts: 70 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the link bigboywooly __________________ 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

05-28-06, 04:04 PM	#4
JSalinger Sparky Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Spokane, WA, USA Posts: 156 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I remember reading about Convoy SC-7 and about a Dutch steamer (the Boekolo, I think) that stopped to pick up survivors...someone torpedoed it (Kretschmer or Moehle, I believe). I'd think that ships that stopped would've been easy targets for a Kaleun eager to rack up some tonnage. __________________ J. Salinger King of the House

05-28-06, 07:27 PM	#6
JSalinger Sparky Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Spokane, WA, USA Posts: 156 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I read the TimeLife book about the Battle of the Atlantic, and then there's The Destruction of Convoy P.Q. 17 by David Irving (who, coincidentally, is doing time in an Austrian jail after being convicted of being a Holocaust denier). __________________ J. Salinger King of the House

05-28-06, 05:49 PM	#5
Rose Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 966 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Whats a good WWII book about convoys?

05-28-06, 08:03 PM	#7
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	OOH that was a nasty convoy to be in. Bet the Admiralty kicked themselves after that one Amazing the amount of fear a couple of battleships possibly leaving port caused That is a good convoy to read up on http://members.tripod.com/~merchantships/contents.html Has some good stories written by the sailors there at the time Last edited by bigboywooly; 05-28-06 at 08:09 PM.

05-28-06, 08:20 PM	#8
JSalinger Sparky Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Spokane, WA, USA Posts: 156 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Also read up on SC-7...that one was an embarrassment...and then there was that tanker convoy that Georg Lassen hit...sank 7 tankers out of 10 in the convoy. __________________ J. Salinger King of the House

05-29-06, 04:59 AM	#9
Khayman Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 258 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	There were specific rescue ships on which the survivors would be placed, or they could even be picked and kept on escorts - as Donald Macintyre did on occasion. I seem to recall damaged ships that could still make some speed being dispatched to closer ports with an escort. I guess this would depend on the size of the escort force though. I think it was up to the escort commander really. It was dangerous to have a ship lying stationary while U-boats might be about, but some did it anyway. So I don't think it's usual for ships and their crews to be abandoned to their fate. Some U-boat commanders considered the sinking of rescue vessels as against the rules of the sea, and didn't shoot even when they could have. Others didn't give a damn.

05-29-06, 05:27 AM	#10
midshipsnake Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I've seen cargo ship and escort stopping by disabled ship and staying there for some time before moving on. I guess this happens about 3 out of 10 times. I thought it was really cool

05-29-06, 08:31 PM	#11
KeybdFlyer 中国水兵 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 272 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	The very first convoy I've encountered had the same thing happen. One escort circled slowly just ahead of the crippled C2 I'd hit for quite a while then headed-off to re-join the re-grouping convoy. Nice touch that. In reality, I believe the decision whether or not to stop was left to the escort commander concerned - suggest reading "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monserrat. It's a novel, but based firmly on reality - Flower Class Corvette "Compass Rose". Well worth a read and if you can get the film based on the novel (a classic movie), do so!