[REL] Depth Charge noise mod

[olddriedseaweed]

I like your premise, however, following the sinking of the Courageous, Kptlt. Otto Schuhart - U29 - was depth charged for 4 hours by four DDs, until they ran out of depth charges and then just wandered home. He states his depth was 180 meters, so, this might not be as reliable a tactic as you think.
Granted, 1939, Type VIIA, no albrecht and I suspect the depth charges were a fraction less damaging at that point in the war (Something I should research).
Again, I really like your premise. Food for thought and discussion.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by olddriedseaweed

I like your premise, however, following the sinking of the Courageous, Kptlt. Otto Schuhart - U29 - was depth charged for 4 hours by four DDs, until they ran out of depth charges and then just wandered home. He states his depth was 180 meters, so, this might not be as reliable a tactic as you think.
Granted, 1939, Type VIIA, no albrecht and I suspect the depth charges were a fraction less damaging at that point in the war (Something I should research).
Again, I really like your premise. Food for thought and discussion.

I based the concept, in part, on some research I had done in the past. I don't remember all that I'd encountered, but here are two (granted, it's Wiki )

• When a depth charge explodes it can take 15 minutes before the disturbance can settle down enough that sonar becomes effective. Many submarines escaped during the time after an unsuccessful depth charge attack. Since Hedgehog charges only explode on contact, sonar tracking of the submarine is less likely to be disrupted by an unsuccessful hedgehog attack.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon))

• The explosion of a depth charge also disturbed the water, so ASDIC contact was very difficult to regain if the first attack had failed. It enabled the U-boat to change position with impunity.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic)

[ThePrody]

i like the mod, i'm using NYGM and the escorts are kind of brutal most of the times, this gives you a chance to crawl away from the hot area .

[JuanLiquid]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

• an initial disturbance of loud noise rendering both active (ASDIC) and passive (hydrophones) unusable. This lasts for just about a minute, and can provide an opportunity, if the situation permits, for you to sprint off in a short burst without being detected.
• a lingering effect whereby passive (hydrophones) still have difficulty hearing you, but active (ASDIC) can now ping and detect you. This lasts for about 5 minutes, and can attract the attention of escorts, and often trick them into thinking they have reacquired contact.

Hi, thanks for the mod. I tested it in 20 min with NYGM and the test 'hunted' mission. I tested it with god eye mode, however maybe it's failing for me.

As soon as the mission started I flank, then I go to periscope depth. Then they pinged me and I go down to 200m depth. I wait the firsts charges and when they drop them in the water, I turn left or right at flank speed. 10 seconds later I go back to 0 knots, 30 RPM. Then the deep charges explode, and instantly they start to ping me.

I tried the same like 10 times, and they always ping me as soon the depth charges end their explosion... I don't have that minute to move freely, even at 0 knots.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by JuanLiquid

Hi, thanks for the mod. I tested it in 20 min with NYGM and the test 'hunted' mission. I tested it with god eye mode, however maybe it's failing for me.

As soon as the mission started I flank, then I go to periscope depth. Then they pinged me and I go down to 200m depth. I wait the firsts charges and when they drop them in the water, I turn left or right at flank speed. 10 seconds later I go back to 0 knots, 30 RPM. Then the deep charges explode, and instantly they start to ping me.

I tried the same like 10 times, and they always ping me as soon the depth charges end their explosion... I don't have that minute to move freely, even at 0 knots.

With multiple escorts surrounding you it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to flank speed away for a full minute without one or more hearing you. That works best when the depth charge explosions are between you and the escort(s). If one or more escorts are on the same side of the explosions as you are, they are very likely to hear you when you hit flank speed.

When you have multiple escorts (like you do in that mission) one thing to try is, as soon as they start dropping depth charges, is to go to flank speed and make a sharp turn (between 45 - 60 degrees) and keep at flank speed until a few seconds after the last depth charge explodes, then immediately drop to 1 - 2 knots/silent running.

With only one or two escorts, as long as both are on the far side of the depth charge explosions, you should be able to sprint at flank for a longer time.

Also, the destroyer crews' efficiency for the "Hunted" mission is "veteran", which is level 4 out of 5, which means they're even harder to confuse than average crews.

Remember, the depth charge noise mod isn't intended to make evading and escaping a "done deal".

[JuanLiquid]

Thank you for taking the time in explaining to me
I was thinking that the noise & disturbances had a giant radius where you could move 'freely' while they last, and the ASDIC was really hard to being used inside. Now I understand it acts like a small smoke screen, where you can see through it with the asdiic, but it's more difficult.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by JuanLiquid

Thank you for taking the time in explaining to me
I was thinking that the noise & disturbances had a giant radius where you could move 'freely' while they last, and the ASDIC was really hard to being used inside. Now I understand it acts like a small smoke screen, where you can see through it with the asdiic, but it's more difficult.

Good analogy, yes! Hopefully during that first minute even ASDIC can't see through it, but since the (apparent) surface area of that is only 100 m3 (10 meters by 10 meters) that will block mostly "line-of-sight'.

Even though this is a released mod, I probably will release updates as I get feedback. For instance, I've set the surface area effect to mimic a Bold, but Bolds were a small canister releasing a dense bubble cloud meant to mimic a U-boat, while this mod is meant to represent the disturbance caused by a 290 - 600 pound explosion, so increasing the surface area might be one tweak to do. Also increasing the noise variable (which is not explained anywhere, and is initially set at "0"; I suspect that the act of launching a Bold somehow sets that variable higher).

For instance, I might set the long-term effect at a higher noise level and higher surface area, and also increase the short-term effect to a higher area, and see if that results in a more "realistic" effect. Ideally, based upon my research, if the hunting escort is between the depth charges that have exploded and the U-boat they are hunting, the U-boat should be undetectable for quite some time after the explosions. Mimicking that effect without unduly skewing things in the U-boat's favor is a trail-and-error experimentation.

[Rhodes]

Is any one using/testing the GWX version of this mod? If so, is there any problems detected when loading a save game?
I had a CTD issue when loading saved games, using this mod.
So, for the sake of the discussion, 2 things:
1. Saving: my saves are done regarding the rules for not having failed loads. Saving away from land, enemy or any unit, at surface, at TC 1x, when in the control room, after some time at maximum TC with out any hicups (normal sign of a enemy unity near the boat).
2. Mods: the mod was loaded, after rolling back SH3 commander and before beginning a new patrol.

The problem:
I enable the mod and run the single mission, all fine. Went to use it in my campaigns. I normally do 3 to 4 saves during a patrol, with the latter being the save and exit. I began to have CTD when loading the save files - CTD occurring after the black screen with the letters (Das U-Boot in my case).
At the beginning I didn't pay much attention, since corruption in saving can occur, do to factors (ex: even regarding all the "safe rules", an airplane could popup and you know). And the only save I could loaded successfully was normally the first one, done after exiting base or at mid patrol route.
After a few times having this problem, I remember that it could be something to do with this mod.
It was the last thing to enable and all the problems of the CTD occured in saves that I done after been engaged and consequentially depth charged by destroyers. The only working saves were the ones that I dind't had experienced any enemy action. So went to test my hypothesis.
Type VII campaign, went on patrol. Saved at mid patrol, no enemy engagement. Convoy detected, attacked and dived to espace. Detected by escorts and depth charged. manage to escape and after all the enemy units had gone, surface and went away. Saved. Rinse and repeat.
When, in next day went to load the game, all the saves after having sink and been engaged by enemy units, give me CTD. The only one that I was able to load, was the first one.
I decided to see if in my type IX campaign, had the same results, could be some incompatibily with the mods that act directly in type VII (aces super turms, the added interiors, etc.).
Same results, any save after the mod was used by the game, after I was depth charged, failed.
So, next step, installing the mod and see. Load the campaign, went on patrol, depth charged, etc. Saved.
Went to load my last save and it loaded fine. Type IX, also.

So, this mod, when the game uses it and at least for me, cause some kind of corruption in the saves. Or, of course, it can also be some incompatibility with my mod soup - when enabling it by jsgme, the only message was that the readme file was already been modified by, but this is a non important file, but do not think so.
Any similar problem for GWX users? Any thoughts of this singular problem?

Mod soup:
SH-5 Water for SH-3 20 Km V84
SH-5 Water for SH-3 Bigger Sun v1
GWX - Captain America's Officer Icons
GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects
GWX - No Medals on Crew
Conus' Historically Accurate U-boat Emblems 1.2
Lutzow's Officers - SET6
LifeBoats&Debris_v4
BritishAsdicMkIFinal
GWX_DFa-Flag&Pens_2010
FM30_UpDown_final
Waterstream+Exhaust Combi V2.3 for GWX3
Torpedo damage Final ver2.0
Wooden_Lifeboats_Mod_1.1
DasBootSehrohr
Real Depth Charge
Q Ship mod GWX3.0
OLC's Modified Searchlight Beams for GWX3
New Uboat Guns 1.2
Damage_caused_by_fires_TheDarkWraith_v1_2
Foam
WB's Decks Awash
DD_OH_V3.09_20091209162038
DD_OH_V3.09_ConningDeckCam_Fix_20091210230737
DD_OH_V3.09_Fix_for_Anvart_FM30_UpDown
Conning Tower open Hatch TestFMfood
MaGui F
optional-ALTERNATIVE SCOPES with speedlines stopwatch for MaGui F
TorpedoSolutionButton for MaGui F (NYGM-GWX-WAC)
CT_FM_NI_Fix_for_MaGui F
O2-Gauges
Type VII salvo selector
Sh3_volumetric_clouds&fog_V1
Aces' Super Turms v6 for GWX
Aces' Super Turms v5.1+ GWX all U-Boats Bearded Crew On Deck Add On
Aces' Super Turms v6 Damo's Type 7 Atmospheric Interior lighting add-on
Aces' Repositioned 105 mm Gun on Types 9b and 9c plus New Type 9b Deck Railings
Evan82's Uniforms II
Charts addon 1.4 NYGM_IABLnew
Optional - Charts Addon 1.4 GWX_MFM ships
Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME)
Stiebler4B_Addon_for_V16B1

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Is any one using/testing the GWX version of this mod? If so, is there any problems detected when loading a save game?
I had a CTD issue when loading saved games, using this mod.
So, for the sake of the discussion, 2 things:
1. Saving: my saves are done regarding the rules for not having failed loads. Saving away from land, enemy or any unit, at surface, at TC 1x, when in the control room, after some time at maximum TC with out any hicups (normal sign of a enemy unity near the boat).
2. Mods: the mod was loaded, after rolling back SH3 commander and before beginning a new patrol.

The problem:
I enable the mod and run the single mission, all fine. Went to use it in my campaigns. I normally do 3 to 4 saves during a patrol, with the latter being the save and exit. I began to have CTD when loading the save files - CTD occurring after the black screen with the letters (Das U-Boot in my case).
At the beginning I didn't pay much attention, since corruption in saving can occur, do to factors (ex: even regarding all the "safe rules", an airplane could popup and you know). And the only save I could loaded successfully was normally the first one, done after exiting base or at mid patrol route.
After a few times having this problem, I remember that it could be something to do with this mod.
It was the last thing to enable and all the problems of the CTD occured in saves that I done after been engaged and consequentially depth charged by destroyers. The only working saves were the ones that I dind't had experienced any enemy action. So went to test my hypothesis.
Type VII campaign, went on patrol. Saved at mid patrol, no enemy engagement. Convoy detected, attacked and dived to espace. Detected by escorts and depth charged. manage to escape and after all the enemy units had gone, surface and went away. Saved. Rinse and repeat.
When, in next day went to load the game, all the saves after having sink and been engaged by enemy units, give me CTD. The only one that I was able to load, was the first one.
I decided to see if in my type IX campaign, had the same results, could be some incompatibily with the mods that act directly in type VII (aces super turms, the added interiors, etc.).
Same results, any save after the mod was used by the game, after I was depth charged, failed.
So, next step, installing the mod and see. Load the campaign, went on patrol, depth charged, etc. Saved.
Went to load my last save and it loaded fine. Type IX, also.

So, this mod, when the game uses it and at least for me, cause some kind of corruption in the saves. Or, of course, it can also be some incompatibility with my mod soup - when enabling it by jsgme, the only message was that the readme file was already been modified by, but this is a non important file, but do not think so.
Any similar problem for GWX users? Any thoughts of this singular problem?

The reason I stopped using GWX and started using WAC was that I could not load any saved game without getting a CTD once I had engaged, and sunk, a ship. That was before I'd worked on, and started using, my depth charge mod. I believe it was most likely a result of my mod soup that did so; I'm not blaming GWX at all. But I was experiencing the same CTD issue: my first save, made just away from base (and before engagements) would be the only one that would reload; any other save made after that one, if made after an engagement, would CTD. That was happening to me before using my depth charge mod.

What happens when you disable the mod? Can you then reload a saved game after being depth charged?

Also, what was your opinion of the effects of the mod? Did you notice any difference in escort behavior? I'd love to know your opinion, and if you think it needs any tweaking.

Thanks!

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

The reason I stopped using GWX and started using WAC was that I could not load any saved game without getting a CTD once I had engaged, and sunk, a ship. That was before I'd worked on, and started using, my depth charge mod. I believe it was most likely a result of my mod soup that did so; I'm not blaming GWX at all. But I was experiencing the same CTD issue: my first save, made just away from base (and before engagements) would be the only one that would reload; any other save made after that one, if made after an engagement, would CTD. That was happening to me before using my depth charge mod.

I see, I also thought the same thing, but I think I could loaded a save game after sunk a ship, with the mod enable. It is just a matter of testing.

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

What happens when you disable the mod? Can you then reload a saved game after being depth charged?

yes, as I said, after disableing the mod, I can load any saved game, with ships sunk and after being depth charged

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

Also, what was your opinion of the effects of the mod? Did you notice any difference in escort behavior? I'd love to know your opinion, and if you think it needs any tweaking.
Thanks!

It is a great mod for any soup or Mega Mod version. Anything that brings more the game to reality, is always good, in simulations (IMO).
I did manage to escape more easily, and more easily is: with out always going deep or very deep (below 150-180m) and I also manage to evade at 2/3 of speed for a few time, without them beginning to ping me or going strait to me. But my campaign (when using the mod) was August - October of 1941.
I think your mod is going to be more noticeable after 1943, when the escorts are going to be tenacious (veteran/elite levels).

[ThePrody]

i had the same issue with NYGM, saves before some big encounter will load but after a convoy attack all saves that followed resulted on CTD. I blamed it on Open Hatch or New interior since i installed those a couple of days before the depth charge mod , i ended up doing a clean install ( not a big deal, it took half an hour and i had that installment for almost a year, a clean install was welcome) , only after the install i started thinking that maybe this mod had something to do with it and i did not installed it again . At least now i can be satisfied that is not the New Interior mod with the problem since i really like that mod .

[silentwayIII]

It seems to be working for me with NYGM and GWX. I have tested it on stock missions with each mega mod and it seems to have some impact on an escort regaining contact. I have not tested beyond 1941 missions but will do so soon through to 1945.
Differences in sensor capability as the war progressed could determine how effective your mod is later in the war and how good of a boat driver you are. I like your mod! Good job!

[LGN1]

Hi schlechter pfennig,

I'm examining your mod and if I see it correctly you have the explosion effect twice: Once as "@DepthCharge_main_explosion" and a second time as "eject_effect". Is there a reason why you did this?

Best, LGN1

PS: I have seen that you use the same IDs for your 'subnodes' in your copy of the depth-charge effect as in the original effect. I'm not sure but this might be problematic.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Hi schlechter pfennig,

I'm examining your mod and if I see it correctly you have the explosion effect twice: Once as "@DepthCharge_main_explosion" and a second time as "eject_effect". Is there a reason why you did this?

Best, LGN1

That is an error. I think that occurred when I ported over clusters to make the release versions.

Originally Posted by LGN1

PS: I have seen that you use the same IDs for your 'subnodes' in your copy of the depth-charge effect as in the original effect. I'm not sure but this might be problematic.

Could you be more specific? I tried very hard to avoid that, since duplicated IDs are a definite recipe for crashes.

[LGN1]

Hi schlechter pfennig,

I have only looked at the GWX version. There, e.g., Node 6 - 12 (2x ParticleGenerator, VisibleUnderWater, and Fog) have the same Id as the corresponding nodes in particles.dat.

Best, LGN1