An overlooked corner of West Texas is believed to contain billions of bls of new oil

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Catfish

That's really interesting.. didn't know they were this far. But after all the 100-year-old Otto engine can still be powered by hydrogen, instead of mineral-based fuel.
Only problems are tank and infrastructure, as mentioned. And the design
Seems a lot of (german) car manufacturers have been sleeping ..

Yeah I actually sat in one in full gear to see if it's comfortable for long periods up to 15 hours a day. Only a few dealers have them. If it is to be my workmobile, the fuel must be dependable 24/7. My opinion is: it's a glorified Prius and a cheaper version is due out...so no rush. (Klick to enlarge) Mirai cutaway showing the electric traction motor and power control unit in the front, the fuel cell stack in the middle, and the nickel-metal hydride traction rechargeable battery above the hydrogen storage tanks in the rear One thing catches my eye:" the tanks hold 10,000lbs pressure are 'designed not to leak' ...any xtrucker/Cessna pilot er knows that it's not a perfect world. My custom CA Plate( if it can get past the censors):
Bottom line: with the CA state 'pushing infrastructure' with tax rebates and credits etc; it's a greenday political correctness situation and I'm a not inclined toward automotive guinea pig. Das Fräu says no and I'm sadly inclined to agree. California had ten hydrogen fueling stations in 2015, and the government provided about $47 million for 28 additional stations there...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_safety

[Mr Quatro]

We owe China money, right? Why don't we (USA) offer straight out transfer deals of oil from the USA (Texas is still in the USA, right ) straight to China and reduce the national debt at the same time.

Just take all of the taxes and middle men out of the deal to make it work.

China finally surpassed the United States as the top global importer of crude oil. China finally surpassed the United States as the top global importer of crude oil. May 2015

China imported an average of 6.1 million barrels of oil a day. Of that, more than 52 percent — or 3.2 million barrels — came from countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq.

In other words, despite years of effort to source more energy from places like Africa, Latin America, Central Asia, and Russia, China gets more oil today from the Middle East than all the oil it imported just a few years ago.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/11/...ast-opec-sloc/

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

We owe China money, right? Why don't we (USA) offer straight out transfer deals of oil from the USA (Texas is still in the USA, right ) straight to China and reduce the national debt at the same time.

Just take all of the taxes and middle men out of the deal to make it work.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/11/...ast-opec-sloc/

Maybe we could just give them California instead?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Think bigger like a Texan. ..
They'll secede from the planet.

This is going to hurt me, if it keeps oil prices low

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Why I'm seriously considering turning in my '86 Camry and '05 Corolla, each with 240,000 miles, on a new Mirai this very week. I'll still have be careful about the fuel stops as the only stations are 40 miles in either direction. The refuel 'infrastructure' is admittedly slim. The hydrogen tanks are pressurized and get 300 mi to the tank. The rebate from CA & Toyota, the fed tax credit together with a 15K fuel debit card made it a 'good deal'. And!!! I can ride the diamond lanes w/o any problem!

I think, duh I can still think You ought to get a van with regular fuel due to what if there was an earthquake and you needed gas would be easier to get gas than where you would with hydrogen. If you really want hydrogen check with the Ca auction every month in Sacramento for a used one that they don't want anymore and then ask them why they don't want it anymore.

15 hours a day! Get a van man Find a rest stop and rest
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[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Maybe we could just give them California instead?

Just Long Beach

$1.241 trillion
US Economy. The U.S. debt to China is $1.241 trillion, as of June 2016. That's nearly 31% of the $4.038 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19 trillion debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself ...

[Catfish]

^ regarding alternative fuel, i thought you do not need to tank hydrogen in a car with fuel cells. The fuel cells produce as much hydrogen as is needed at the moment, there is no need for a storage. I wonder what they "tank" into the Mirai, because if it is hydrogen it would not need fuel cells.

Regarding the Hindenburg.. as said before, not possible with fuel cells because not enough hydrogen.

edit: i was wrong. The Mirai tanks hydrogen, and burns it with oxygen to generate energy - so the Mirai has hydrogen tanks.
Regarding danger of explosion normal fuel is not harmless as well.. but we got used to it.

http://www.popsci.com/how-hydrogen-vehicles-work

[Catfish]

Hmm i always thought the other way round..

You have the usual internal combustion engine like the Otto one, and you have a much bigger battery, but not as big as like with the entirely electric cars like Tesla or Ampera.

You start the internal combustion engine by producing hydrogen out of water, with the battery's energy, until the engine runs. Then it automatically switches to the generator's energy being driven by the engine, to split hydrogen and oxygen from water.

You can then either drive your car with a conventional engine fuelled by hydrogen (all combustion engines can use mineral fuels, hydrogen, ethanol or anything that explodes without changing much of the layout), or you can entirely disconnect the engine from the drive train, and just produce electricity to power an electric engine that moves teh car, like with Diesel-electric propulsion, only that it is hydrogen instead of Diesel. All without emissions else than water vapour.

"Problem" is you would not need to buy fuel anymore... or only demineralized water. I can see some companies won't like that..

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

thank you for your knowledge and input vienna

I thought you were from California ... how does someone from California know so much about Texas?

I am from California, originally from up North in San Francisco (Fillmore District, Noe Valley, & Outer Mission) and ended up here in Los Angeles (Hollywood). The reason there is so much knowledge about Texas available in California is because Texas seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to California; California is always in the top ten of the world; according to the most recent report I could find, if CA were a separate nation, it would rank number 6, overall:

As for the global rankings, the overall U.S. economy was No. 1 last year at $17.95 trillion. China was No. 2 at $10.98 trillion, followed by Japan, Germany and the United Kingdom.
California was next at $2.46 trillion. France dropped to No. 7, followed by India and Italy.
Brazil, gripped by a deep recession, tumbled all the way to 10th.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/...e83780667.html

The rankings are subject to interpretation, so your mileage may vary...

Texas, the last I saw was ranked 12th overall, but it used to be right behind CA in the rankings. Part of the decline is due to the fall in oil prices and the resulting 'depressed' economy of TX...

Texans has long been tinkering and interfering with CA politics and state/local governments. CA has huge oil deposits and TX companies had a wide rein over exploiting the oil early in the 20th century, but, by the mid 60s, the citizens and voters had had enough of the pollution and destruction caused by oil drilling; strict laws were passed imposing strict limitations on the oil industry's impact on the environment. It should be noted the oil companies were drilling everywhere and anywhere. I spent two years at a high school in downtown Los Angeles, and there were oil rigs in a field just opposite the school; there is a very ritzy, high end shopping mall on the border of Beverly Hills and, when it was being built, a slice of the land had to be walled off and disguised because of a couple of active wells that the oil company responsible would not give up; it should also be noted that prior to the construction of the shopping mall, the site was the location of a children's amusement park, but the oil company drilled anyway...

Because of the strict laws, TX companies and individuals have spent huge amounts of money trying to either get the laws reversed or amended, or trying to get candidates sympathetic to oil interests elected to office; so far, the effort has not been successful; new and stricter laws have been enacted, and the candidates, almost totally from the GOP, have either failed to win, or, if they did win, have be ineffective...

The sums of money expended by TX interests is staggering; we, here in CA, don't really mind: if they want to add strength to our economy, who are we to deny them the chance to 'spend, baby, spend' within our borders; TX dollars are just as good as anyone else's. I mentioned the 2006 election project I worked on; here is a link describing the initiative and the facts of the election:

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P..._Oil_Tax_(2006)

If you look carefully at the list of opponents, you will note there is no mention of any oil industry individuals or organizations; however if you look at the list of contributors in opposition, the list is all oil interests, many of them either directly based in TX or allied to TX oil interests...

Additionally, TX has been making very aggressive efforts to poach businesses from CA, even to the point of then-Governor Rick Perry making trips to CA to wine and dine CA business executives to lure them to TX. He has some little success, but the critical businesses have remained here in CA and many have expanded. I recall seeing a TV news report where the reporter asked a CA tech executive if he would ever entertain a move to TX; he said, given his sector, tech, was headquartered in the North in the SF Bay Area and in the South in the Santa Monica/Playa Del Rey seaside area, he really didn't think his employees would relish a move to what he referred to as a 'bit of a desert'...

So, we here in CA tend to have a bit of knowledge of TX just because they just won't leave us alone. Oh, by the way, don't be so hard on Long Beach: they really have come a long way from the days when I first saw it in the 60s, although I do kinda miss the old funky Pike...




<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Thank you for that long explanation ... you always have long explanations, but thats okay with me. You sound very knowledgeable (Steve will do a spell check on that word ) thank you for your contributions.

I know Long Beach and California in general very well, but this thread is about Texas oil so I'll let it slide with this one graphic to remind people of what we were talking about. Long Beach is a very different area than the rest of California. Oil wells, draw bridges, poor people with four duplexes up and four down all with different nationalities, cruise ship terminal nearby in San Pedro. shipping container ships and the noise they make all night long in nearby Carson. Gateway to the west, the Navy should've never left Long Beach, but I'll turn it back over to the west Texas oil find

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by vienna

I am from California, originally from up North in San Francisco (Fillmore District, Noe Valley, & Outer Mission) and ended up here in Los Angeles (Hollywood). The reason there is so much knowledge about Texas available in California is because Texas seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to California; California is always in the top ten of the world; according to the most recent report I could find, if CA were a separate nation, it would rank number 6, overall:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/...e83780667.html

The rankings are subject to interpretation, so your mileage may vary...

Texas, the last I saw was ranked 12th overall, but it used to be right behind CA in the rankings. Part of the decline is due to the fall in oil prices and the resulting 'depressed' economy of TX...

Texans has long been tinkering and interfering with CA politics and state/local governments. CA has huge oil deposits and TX companies had a wide rein over exploiting the oil early in the 20th century, but, by the mid 60s, the citizens and voters had had enough of the pollution and destruction caused by oil drilling; strict laws were passed imposing strict limitations on the oil industry's impact on the environment. It should be noted the oil companies were drilling everywhere and anywhere. I spent two years at a high school in downtown Los Angeles, and there were oil rigs in a field just opposite the school; there is a very ritzy, high end shopping mall on the border of Beverly Hills and, when it was being built, a slice of the land had to be walled off and disguised because of a couple of active wells that the oil company responsible would not give up; it should also be noted that prior to the construction of the shopping mall, the site was the location of a children's amusement park, but the oil company drilled anyway...

Because of the strict laws, TX companies and individuals have spent huge amounts of money trying to either get the laws reversed or amended, or trying to get candidates sympathetic to oil interests elected to office; so far, the effort has not been successful; new and stricter laws have been enacted, and the candidates, almost totally from the GOP, have either failed to win, or, if they did win, have be ineffective...

The sums of money expended by TX interests is staggering; we, here in CA, don't really mind: if they want to add strength to our economy, who are we to deny them the chance to 'spend, baby, spend' within our borders; TX dollars are just as good as anyone else's. I mentioned the 2006 election project I worked on; here is a link describing the initiative and the facts of the election:

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P..._Oil_Tax_(2006)

If you look carefully at the list of opponents, you will note there is no mention of any oil industry individuals or organizations; however if you look at the list of contributors in opposition, the list is all oil interests, many of them either directly based in TX or allied to TX oil interests...

Additionally, TX has been making very aggressive efforts to poach businesses from CA, even to the point of then-Governor Rick Perry making trips to CA to wine and dine CA business executives to lure them to TX. He has some little success, but the critical businesses have remained here in CA and many have expanded. I recall seeing a TV news report where the reporter asked a CA tech executive if he would ever entertain a move to TX; he said, given his sector, tech, was headquartered in the North in the SF Bay Area and in the South in the Santa Monica/Playa Del Rey seaside area, he really didn't think his employees would relish a move to what he referred to as a 'bit of a desert'...

So, we here in CA tend to have a bit of knowledge of TX just because they just won't leave us alone. Oh, by the way, don't be so hard on Long Beach: they really have come a long way from the days when I first saw it in the 60s, although I do kinda miss the old funky Pike...

Hmm...oil expert, eh? Methinks thou doth protest too much.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Oil is always going to be around therefore we will always find a use for it, if you ask me Texas knows this and is preparing for the future.

The US knows this and is the reason the US burns up "others" oil fields. Specifically the Middle East. One day the balance of oil power will change.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Hmm...oil expert, eh? Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Nah, not an oil expert at all; just very interested in the politics and money (it's always 'follow the money' in these matters) of how corporations, especially out of state corporations, affect CA. With such a strong and diverse economy, the number of outside players in CA is staggering; China has been really ramping up their holdings in CA lately, particularly in SoCal...

Regarding the oil situation in CA, a refinery located in Torrance, a part of the general Los Angeles area, had a mysterious explosion last year and went offline, leading to an increase in gasoline prices in CA. The refinery was owned by Irvine, TX based Exxon-Mobil at the time; the explosion's cause is still a bit murky and Exxon tried to leverage the loss of product availability and the price rise to get environmental and safety regulations either eased or waived; part of the effort was to also have the regs changed or waived at other Exxon sites; the local and state authorities balked at the idea and refused Exxon's requests. Exxon finally threw in the towel and sold the refinery to an independent concern; as a result, the repairs and compliance were made and the ability of the oil companies to fully control the oil and gasoline market in CA was lessened...




<O>

[vienna]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The US knows this and is the reason the US burns up "others" oil fields. Specifically the Middle East. One day the balance of oil power will change.

As a parallel, TX knows this and is the reason it burns up other state's oil resources, going for the "last man standing" endgame. This tactic is one of the reasons the Obama administration questioned the TX oil companies holdings of Federally-administered oil exploitation leases in states other than TX that were not being used; the government basically imposed a "use it or lose it" standard on the leases and cancelled some of the leases outright; the oil companies were, shall we say, not amused...




<O>

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I thought you were from California ... how does someone from California know so much about Texas?

Wishful dreaming of getting out of Californication?