Incompetent watch crew

Hamppupalaa · 07-02-16, 01:12 PM

Anyone else annoyed because of the watch crew that spots ships at ~9 kilometers?

Is there a parameter or something that changes the spotting range?

Mittelwaechter · 07-02-16, 03:53 PM

Do you play Vanilla SH3 or are you running a modification?

Hamppupalaa · 07-03-16, 01:43 AM

GWX3 with Ahnenerbe WideGUI and M.E.P V5

KaleutKiwi · 07-03-16, 02:16 AM

are you wanting to have them spot further or less?

Hamppupalaa · 07-03-16, 02:31 AM

Further, of course. It really makes me mad when the watch crew spots the target only at very close range. It is less of a problem in bad weather, but clear weather, i always get spotted. If the spotting range would be the same as the range I can see, it would be great.

Mittelwaechter · 07-03-16, 04:44 AM

You are with GWX and have activated the 16 km atmosphere I guess.

There are four states of visibility - perfect 16 km - limited ~ 10 km - bad ~ 6 km - and foggy ~ 1 km.
(Vanilla is 50% - 8 km atmosphere)

The first two may be difficult to distinguish in certain weather and daytime conditions. You seem to have perfect conditions, but the horizon for your crew is at ~ 10 km.

Depending on your crew qualification and the opponents crew qualification you may be detected early ( there are more factors like size of the target or daytime).
Qualification, decoration, rank, experience, morale and health are factors to consider for your watch crew.
Even the positioning on the bridge is of matter. Have the best qualified searching the forward sectors. The gap between you and a target is closing faster while approaching head on.

You can force (mod) the WO to report the actual visibility conditions with the weather report.

Edit: I just realized M.E.P is tweaking sensors and visual settings - so it might be some setting changed with this mod - or you shall/need to tweak/control/set something by yourself.

Benzin1973 · 07-20-16, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

...
You can force (mod) the WO to report the actual visibility conditions with the weather report...

Hi!
I been wondering about this, i see GWX sort of does it, and i would like to experiment adding it to my "Enhanced Vanilla" mod. But i have no idea how to do it (wich files to edit).
¿Can you point me in the right direction?

thanks

Hamppupala: Something that has allways annoyed me about GWX, is that it sets enemy visual range to 30,000meters. That almost twice your own range!
You can install Silent 3 Editor, edit AI_Sensors.dat and set visual range to be the same as yours: 16000m. This will result in your crew spotting them before they spot you, because your sub has a far lower profile than a destroyer.

Mittelwaechter · 07-20-16, 09:35 PM

Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\menu\xx_menu.txt

4100= refers to maximum
4101= refers to ~ 70%
4102= refers to ~ 30%
4103= refers to fog conditions.

Depending on your atmosphere mod, you can add the visual distance to be reported by your WO. The night conditions may be reduced, but your WO is not flexible here.

I have modified these entries, as the following few dealing with weather, to make the WO report in natural (German) language.

The report starts with a condition from 4110 to 4112 - for the clouds.

4112= Completely overcast, Herr Kaleun!

followed by the percipitation in 4120 to 4122

4121= It's raining and

followed by the visual conditions 4100 to 4103

4103= we are in heavy fog. Maybe 800 meters sight. Shall we dive, Herr Kaleun?

followed by the 4128 entry

4128=Clouds %s, Precipitation %s, Visibility %s|Wind Speed %d meters per second, direction %3d.

Here you have to keep the %s %s %s, as it controls the given sequence of the entries above, but delete the Clouds/Perception/Visibility to have the natural replacement of the WO enabled.

The gaps and commata will show (if you keep them) and you have to formulate/formate your report accordingly. A direct %s%s%s is possible, if you want to report all kind of semantic combinations and grammar options correctly.

An “invisible letter” - a visual enforced gap - is achieved by ALT+0160 (numbers on the NumPad!) in your text.

The | starts a new line in the message window.

The sequence %d and %3d is fix, but you can wrap any text around.

Wind choppy, with %d m/s, from %3d most of the time.|The radio reports a stormfront from the north.

I have modded a SH3 Commander file (in German) to change the text of the report every month. I used the no percipitation line 4120 to report temperature and air pressure, but of course it stays constant with every report, as long as there is no percipitation.

But in december I may have a light snowfall and only 4° Celsius, while in summer my barometer has risen to 1024 bar and it's raining cats and dogs.

A wild mix of reports is possible.

Blue skies and clear air, Herr Kaleun. The barometer shows 1021 bar and we have 21° Celsius. The sight conditions are excellent, at least 14 000 meters to the horizon. Windspeed about 6 meters, changing directions, most 122. We have a light swell from south-east.

The weather report as ordered: high cummulus cirrus, 4/10. The thermometer is still out of order, the barometer reads 1015 bar. Pretty much moist over the horizon, Herr Kaleun! Reduced visibility - maybe 9 000 meters. Wind 6 from 244.

I'm pretty sure, most of the explanation is not necessary for you. But someone else may find it helpful.

EDIT: I had to chose a smaller message font, to have the report displayed completely.

Benzin1973 · 07-21-16, 06:30 PM

Thanks Mittelwaechter!

The bit that i am most interested in is:

4100=None
4101=Light
4102=Medium
4103=Heavy

My main goal is to make this report more usefull regarding visibility. So instead of saying something like "Fog Medium", or even "Visibility reduced" (as he does in GWX), he would say something like "Visibility about 3km".

The really tricky part, is that i think wind speed (equals wave height) and time of day (equals light) theoretically also have an impact on visibility, so im not sure how accurate a statement of "Visibility is about 3000m" based only on fog conditions would be?
Maybe this is why GWX kept it ambiguous with "moderate, unlimited" etc.?

Since we are in the subject of visibility, (apoligies to Hamppupalaa for slightly hijacking your thread)...

Do you know if uboat size affects how visible you are to the enemy AI?

Common sense tells me it is relevant, but i want to confirm the game models this.
In my "Enhanced vanilla" mod, i managed to tweak visual ranges to what seems right to me, at night i can get very close to merchants (surfaced), even a few hundred meters without them seeing me, and about 1km close to escorts without being detected. During the day, no fog, i am spotted at arround 5-7km.
This worked perfectly with the values i set. I did a lot of testing on it. However i only tested on a type VII, when i played my other career in wich i use a IXC, i was intercepting a convoy during the day and i got spotted by escorts at 15km

just about 1 minute after i spotted them! Had to crash dive with shells buzzing over my head!

EDIT:
I guess this issue (they dont see my VII but they do my IX) is directly related to this value in sim.cfg/Visual?
Enemy surface factor=400

Mittelwaechter · 07-21-16, 06:52 PM

SIM.cfg

The size of the object above the surface is relevant for visual as for radar. Snorkel!

Submerged for the sonar.

For the night vision frickle the light setting.

The WO will report visibility only according to the 4 entries. He doesn't adapt to the real values day to night - nor waves or speed or bow wave...

Have a single mission setup and adapt your daytime report to the real distances the incoming contact is reported.
His night reports will overshoot the distance according to your settings - and you have to keep it in mind.

I have a variety in my reports - excellent is from 16km down to 12km. But I know the conditions are top.
Bad varies from 3000 to 5500 meters - again, I know it is the 30% condition - and I have to be more careful.

The 5500 visibility may have changed from the last report to the actual contact reported at 3000 meters. I have no problem with that.

There are only four steps available - and I'm only interested in what to expect.

30% might be a problem with incoming aircraft and patrol boats...

Btw - the pump soldier doesn't differentiate between used weapons, but only between u-boat state - prey - stalker - neutral.
He cheers and yeahs now differently, but I'll have to record some proper comment myself some day.

Benzin1973 · 07-21-16, 09:12 PM

I cant make up my mind on how to display the information.

I decided i want both fog and visibility, so...
4100=None, Excellent visibility
4101=Light, Good visibility
4102=Medium, Low visibility
4103=Heavy, Very poor visibility!

or maybe...

4100=None, Full visibility
4101=Light, High visibility
4102=Medium, Low visibility
4103=Heavy, Poor visibility!

None of the above seem "right". I know its merely "cosmetic" to say excellent or full, but i cant make up my mind. It would be great for him to say ranges like aoubt 16km, less than 10km, etc. But i dont think that would be accurate due to the light & wave factors we talked about.

What do you have?

About the pump soldier, (i fear the answer is no, but) does he diferentiate between what kind of target was destroyed (e.g. plane or ship)? It would be nice to have him say something when a merchant is sunk, something more "enthusiastic" when an escort is killed, and something diferent when a plane bursts into flames!

Sailor Steve · 07-21-16, 11:13 PM

I use the 'SH5 Water for SH3' mod for the visuals, but it also has a 20 km range. Just a few hours ago my crew spotted a ship at 16 km, so I know it works.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3314

Mittelwaechter · 07-21-16, 11:57 PM

As I stated above, I have a naturally spoken report - different for every month of the war.

Your desired accuracy is not supported for the weather report.

You want to keep the GWX approach - so add only the distances.

- excellent - over the horizon.
- limited - about 10 000 meters. (changing, between 8 000 and 11 000 meters)?
- pretty bad - 5000 meters at best. (varying +/- 1500)?
- miserable - 600 meters and less. Wafts of mist/fog?

Can't help you here. Your taste - your decision.

It is only eye candy anyway - important is the information to be in one of the four conditions. Everything else is irrelevant for playing (fatigue/waves maybe - can't remember)
Wind speed is important for h.sie - for the depth settings of the torpedos.

The contacts will be reported independently from any weather report - at the given distance. Crew qualification, rank, fatigue - size of the target...

The pump sailor indicates only a torpedo hit - and a sinking/downing. No differentiation for weapons or targets, only uboat state.

BarracudaUAK · 07-22-16, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzin1973

I cant make up my mind on how to display the information.

I decided i want both fog and visibility, so...
4100=None, Excellent visibility
4101=Light, Good visibility
4102=Medium, Low visibility
4103=Heavy, Very poor visibility!

or maybe...

4100=None, Full visibility
4101=Light, High visibility
4102=Medium, Low visibility
4103=Heavy, Poor visibility!
...

Perhaps "Unlimited Visibility" or "Visibility: Unlimited", depeding on the flow you prefer.
A few TV weather channels here used the term, but it was generaly refering to cloud cover and visibility 'ceiling' (i.e. "straight up").

On an ocean without any references, would he really know how far it is ('full')?
Although in a game so reliant on math (for torpedo solutions) I do like exact ranges personally, but will always "wing it" with 'best guess'.

Just a thought.

Barracuda

Hamppupalaa · 09-22-16, 07:34 AM

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but i'm still stuck with the same problem. I laid the game off for a while and now i tried it again with SH5 water mod. Didn't work. But it seems that my crew reacts to enemy ships (they duck down) but the watch officer doesn't call the contact out.

07-02-16, 01:12 PM	#1
Hamppupalaa Seaman Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Jyväskylä Finland Posts: 37 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Incompetent watch crew Anyone else annoyed because of the watch crew that spots ships at ~9 kilometers? Is there a parameter or something that changes the spotting range?

07-02-16, 03:53 PM	#2
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Do you play Vanilla SH3 or are you running a modification? __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

07-03-16, 02:16 AM	#4
KaleutKiwi Swabbie Join Date: May 2016 Location: Biel, Switzerland Posts: 9 Downloads: 186 Uploads: 0	are you wanting to have them spot further or less? __________________ .

07-03-16, 04:44 AM	#6
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	You are with GWX and have activated the 16 km atmosphere I guess. There are four states of visibility - perfect 16 km - limited ~ 10 km - bad ~ 6 km - and foggy ~ 1 km. (Vanilla is 50% - 8 km atmosphere) The first two may be difficult to distinguish in certain weather and daytime conditions. You seem to have perfect conditions, but the horizon for your crew is at ~ 10 km. Depending on your crew qualification and the opponents crew qualification you may be detected early ( there are more factors like size of the target or daytime). Qualification, decoration, rank, experience, morale and health are factors to consider for your watch crew. Even the positioning on the bridge is of matter. Have the best qualified searching the forward sectors. The gap between you and a target is closing faster while approaching head on. You can force (mod) the WO to report the actual visibility conditions with the weather report. Edit: I just realized M.E.P is tweaking sensors and visual settings - so it might be some setting changed with this mod - or you shall/need to tweak/control/set something by yourself. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 07-03-16 at 05:36 AM.

07-20-16, 09:35 PM	#8
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\menu\xx_menu.txt 4100= refers to maximum 4101= refers to ~ 70% 4102= refers to ~ 30% 4103= refers to fog conditions. Depending on your atmosphere mod, you can add the visual distance to be reported by your WO. The night conditions may be reduced, but your WO is not flexible here. I have modified these entries, as the following few dealing with weather, to make the WO report in natural (German) language. The report starts with a condition from 4110 to 4112 - for the clouds. 4112= Completely overcast, Herr Kaleun! followed by the percipitation in 4120 to 4122 4121= It's raining and followed by the visual conditions 4100 to 4103 4103= we are in heavy fog. Maybe 800 meters sight. Shall we dive, Herr Kaleun? followed by the 4128 entry 4128=Clouds %s, Precipitation %s, Visibility %s\|Wind Speed %d meters per second, direction %3d. Here you have to keep the %s %s %s, as it controls the given sequence of the entries above, but delete the Clouds/Perception/Visibility to have the natural replacement of the WO enabled. The gaps and commata will show (if you keep them) and you have to formulate/formate your report accordingly. A direct %s%s%s is possible, if you want to report all kind of semantic combinations and grammar options correctly. An “invisible letter” - a visual enforced gap - is achieved by ALT+0160 (numbers on the NumPad!) in your text. The \| starts a new line in the message window. The sequence %d and %3d is fix, but you can wrap any text around. Wind choppy, with %d m/s, from %3d most of the time.\|The radio reports a stormfront from the north. I have modded a SH3 Commander file (in German) to change the text of the report every month. I used the no percipitation line 4120 to report temperature and air pressure, but of course it stays constant with every report, as long as there is no percipitation. But in december I may have a light snowfall and only 4° Celsius, while in summer my barometer has risen to 1024 bar and it's raining cats and dogs. A wild mix of reports is possible. Blue skies and clear air, Herr Kaleun. The barometer shows 1021 bar and we have 21° Celsius. The sight conditions are excellent, at least 14 000 meters to the horizon. Windspeed about 6 meters, changing directions, most 122. We have a light swell from south-east. The weather report as ordered: high cummulus cirrus, 4/10. The thermometer is still out of order, the barometer reads 1015 bar. Pretty much moist over the horizon, Herr Kaleun! Reduced visibility - maybe 9 000 meters. Wind 6 from 244. I'm pretty sure, most of the explanation is not necessary for you. But someone else may find it helpful. EDIT: I had to chose a smaller message font, to have the report displayed completely. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 07-20-16 at 09:47 PM.

07-03-16, 01:43 AM	#3
Hamppupalaa Seaman Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Jyväskylä Finland Posts: 37 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	GWX3 with Ahnenerbe WideGUI and M.E.P V5

07-03-16, 02:31 AM	#5
Hamppupalaa Seaman Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Jyväskylä Finland Posts: 37 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Further, of course. It really makes me mad when the watch crew spots the target only at very close range. It is less of a problem in bad weather, but clear weather, i always get spotted. If the spotting range would be the same as the range I can see, it would be great.

07-21-16, 06:30 PM	#9
Benzin1973 Engineer Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 217 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	Thanks Mittelwaechter! The bit that i am most interested in is: 4100=None 4101=Light 4102=Medium 4103=Heavy My main goal is to make this report more usefull regarding visibility. So instead of saying something like "Fog Medium", or even "Visibility reduced" (as he does in GWX), he would say something like "Visibility about 3km". The really tricky part, is that i think wind speed (equals wave height) and time of day (equals light) theoretically also have an impact on visibility, so im not sure how accurate a statement of "Visibility is about 3000m" based only on fog conditions would be? Maybe this is why GWX kept it ambiguous with "moderate, unlimited" etc.? Since we are in the subject of visibility, (apoligies to Hamppupalaa for slightly hijacking your thread)... Do you know if uboat size affects how visible you are to the enemy AI? Common sense tells me it is relevant, but i want to confirm the game models this. In my "Enhanced vanilla" mod, i managed to tweak visual ranges to what seems right to me, at night i can get very close to merchants (surfaced), even a few hundred meters without them seeing me, and about 1km close to escorts without being detected. During the day, no fog, i am spotted at arround 5-7km. This worked perfectly with the values i set. I did a lot of testing on it. However i only tested on a type VII, when i played my other career in wich i use a IXC, i was intercepting a convoy during the day and i got spotted by escorts at 15km just about 1 minute after i spotted them! Had to crash dive with shells buzzing over my head! EDIT: I guess this issue (they dont see my VII but they do my IX) is directly related to this value in sim.cfg/Visual? Enemy surface factor=400 Last edited by Benzin1973; 07-21-16 at 06:50 PM.

07-21-16, 06:52 PM	#10
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	SIM.cfg The size of the object above the surface is relevant for visual as for radar. Snorkel! Submerged for the sonar. For the night vision frickle the light setting. The WO will report visibility only according to the 4 entries. He doesn't adapt to the real values day to night - nor waves or speed or bow wave... Have a single mission setup and adapt your daytime report to the real distances the incoming contact is reported. His night reports will overshoot the distance according to your settings - and you have to keep it in mind. I have a variety in my reports - excellent is from 16km down to 12km. But I know the conditions are top. Bad varies from 3000 to 5500 meters - again, I know it is the 30% condition - and I have to be more careful. The 5500 visibility may have changed from the last report to the actual contact reported at 3000 meters. I have no problem with that. There are only four steps available - and I'm only interested in what to expect. 30% might be a problem with incoming aircraft and patrol boats... Btw - the pump soldier doesn't differentiate between used weapons, but only between u-boat state - prey - stalker - neutral. He cheers and yeahs now differently, but I'll have to record some proper comment myself some day. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 07-21-16 at 07:34 PM.

07-21-16, 09:12 PM	#11
Benzin1973 Engineer Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 217 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	I cant make up my mind on how to display the information. I decided i want both fog and visibility, so... 4100=None, Excellent visibility 4101=Light, Good visibility 4102=Medium, Low visibility 4103=Heavy, Very poor visibility! or maybe... 4100=None, Full visibility 4101=Light, High visibility 4102=Medium, Low visibility 4103=Heavy, Poor visibility! None of the above seem "right". I know its merely "cosmetic" to say excellent or full, but i cant make up my mind. It would be great for him to say ranges like aoubt 16km, less than 10km, etc. But i dont think that would be accurate due to the light & wave factors we talked about. What do you have? About the pump soldier, (i fear the answer is no, but) does he diferentiate between what kind of target was destroyed (e.g. plane or ship)? It would be nice to have him say something when a merchant is sunk, something more "enthusiastic" when an escort is killed, and something diferent when a plane bursts into flames!

07-21-16, 11:13 PM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I use the 'SH5 Water for SH3' mod for the visuals, but it also has a 20 km range. Just a few hours ago my crew spotted a ship at 16 km, so I know it works. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3314 __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-21-16, 11:57 PM	#13
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	As I stated above, I have a naturally spoken report - different for every month of the war. Your desired accuracy is not supported for the weather report. You want to keep the GWX approach - so add only the distances. - excellent - over the horizon. - limited - about 10 000 meters. (changing, between 8 000 and 11 000 meters)? - pretty bad - 5000 meters at best. (varying +/- 1500)? - miserable - 600 meters and less. Wafts of mist/fog? Can't help you here. Your taste - your decision. It is only eye candy anyway - important is the information to be in one of the four conditions. Everything else is irrelevant for playing (fatigue/waves maybe - can't remember) Wind speed is important for h.sie - for the depth settings of the torpedos. The contacts will be reported independently from any weather report - at the given distance. Crew qualification, rank, fatigue - size of the target... The pump sailor indicates only a torpedo hit - and a sinking/downing. No differentiation for weapons or targets, only uboat state. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 07-22-16 at 12:07 AM.

09-22-16, 07:34 AM	#15
Hamppupalaa Seaman Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Jyväskylä Finland Posts: 37 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but i'm still stuck with the same problem. I laid the game off for a while and now i tried it again with SH5 water mod. Didn't work. But it seems that my crew reacts to enemy ships (they duck down) but the watch officer doesn't call the contact out.