Is LWAMI mod a cheat?

[Sonoboy]

I've heard that some people are calling the LWAMI mod a cheat. I'm curious to know why some people think of it that way.

[Bellman]

Well for starters - what have you heard.? I guess you could'nt resist asking the accusers why ? :hmm:

Does'nt Stock auto TMA cheat ? What do we mean 'cheating' anyhow ? Most game software takes 'short-cuts'

The only suggestion I have of ' a difference' (not sure its only LwAmi) is that manual sonar pops up out
of the blue, even as I'm distracted having a cup of tea, with ''You have a new contact...'' Ghostly !!
Now I might unawarse have clicked on that bearing sometime previously but not recently
and I dont think that is the case.

I would want some real evidence before making any judgement and in view of the general high regard in
which LwAmi is held and the respect we have for Amizaur and LuftWolf I think we owe them intelligent
and reasoned criticism, if that is appropriate. AND certainly before any voting takes place !!!!!

[Kapitan]

If its about the cheat's post end this one now while you still can.

As for lwami mod being a cheat no but it does and can mess up doctrine files if you play a stock 103 game with it so ive heard anyway.

[Deathblow]

Why do some people think that LW&A mod is a cheat?

Seems like stock game would be the cheat with the "torps detonating on CM" problem.

[Driftwood]

It most certainly is not a cheat. It's a realism modification to the stock game that allows users of the mod (me included) to have a more RL simulation. As with any mod, you must be careful when switching back and forth between Stock 1.03 and Lwami 3.02 or you can get a "confused" database. And you should NEVER play another person unless both of you are using the same DB and doctrine files (either stock or Lwami) because you will get VERY strange game behavior. DW alerts players when someone doesn't have the same DB and doctrine files that you have. If you continue into a dive after you get that warning beware that you will have erratic game behavior.

[OKO]

Originally Posted by Deathblow

Why do some people think that LW&A mod is a cheat?

because there is some stupid people at every game
Especially at evolued and complicated games like this one, where lots of confusion could be made beetween real bugs and own failures.
People calling LWAMI a cheat could be also people afraid of the new amount of data you need to learn to have a more realistic simulation : It's so easier to say "it is a cheat" than to say "I can't play with it because it's much harder and I'm badly lost".
Another part of these peoples will say it's a cheat because someone "said it's a cheat", even if they don't even know what they are talking about ...

Here is why some dumbass says LWAMI is a cheat.
But fortunatly, you have your eyes, you learned to read, and so you could take a look at the readme of the LWAMI where you will notice every change made for this patch, and better understand how stupid could be the assertion : LWAMI is a cheat

Originally Posted by Deathblow

Seems like stock game would be the cheat with the "torps detonating on CM" problem.

not only this one, DOZEN of "cheat" removed, like real torpedo seekers and not the biggest seeker of the game for all.
There is so many improvments, stupid people should have learn to read to be aware of what they are talking about.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Driftwood

DW alerts players when someone doesn't have the same DB and doctrine files that you have. If you continue into a dive after you get that warning beware that you will have erratic game behavior.

No, Dw only alerts players when they have different databses, but it doesn't absolutely control the doctrine files since independently of what doctrine files the players have they will be automatically using those of the host.
So you can have a situation where the host has default database + lwami doctrine files and the players have the default database + default doctrine files and DW won't find anything strange to report.

[OKO]

So you can have a situation where the host has default database + lwami doctrine files and the players have the default database + default doctrine files and DW won't find anything strange to report.

And in this case, only the AI is concerned, of course.
So, basically, all players will have the LWAMI upgraded doctrine version instead of the stock version because the host have it.

In this case, the only change will concern the AI behavior and that's all.
In fact, it's really not a big deal to have improved version for AI, is it ?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by OKO

And in this case, only the AI is concerned, of course.
So, basically, all players will have the LWAMI upgraded doctrine version instead of the stock version because the host have it.

In this case, the only change will concern the AI behavior and that's all.
In fact, it's really not a big deal to have improved version for AI, is it ?

No Oko, the issue is not about using improved doctrines, its about letting the players know what doctrines are being used.
Not knowing what doctrines are used can be used as an advantage of the hoster.
He modifies in certain way the doctrines, modifications to which only he is privy and when he starts a match all the players think there is no problem because they are all using the default database but they don't know that the doctrine files have been tampered with.
I find the issue disturbing, don't you ? :hmm:

There has to be beside the database validty check a validity check also on the doctrines files, so every player has the same doctrine files in multiplayer.

[Palindromeria]

Originally Posted by Bellman

The only suggestion I have of ' a difference' (not sure its only LwAmi) is that manual sonar pops up out
of the blue, even as I'm distracted having a cup of tea, with ''You have a new contact...'' Ghostly !!
Now I might unawarse have clicked on that bearing sometime previously but not recently
and I dont think that is the case.

I am using stock 1.03 and this happens every now and again.
i assumed it was the ai kickin in to save me from myself -
trying to tell me i should have noticed it already or something .. dunno.

in any event its nothing to do with LWAMI

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LWAMI

the mod is not a cheat.

but

the person who knowingly changes game files to their advantage against unsuspecting opponents IS.

[Driftwood]

I stand (or sit) corrected! And I see your point about an unscrupulous player using this to his/her advantage. Especially if only doctrines pertaining their own platform were "adjusted." That make's it more important that we truly "know" our sim and the capabilities of the platforms, weapons and sensors for stock DW and modded play. Knowledge is power and should be our major defense against cheats. Your idea about a check comparison for doctrine files seems to be a good one.

[Fish]

I think cheaters will be found and left alone very quick, the community will act like a village announcer here.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Fish

I think cheaters will be found and left alone very quick, the community will act like a village announcer here.

Maybe it could work in some cases where cheating is conspicous, but what happens if a player decides to subtly change the doctrine files to his advantage ?
Would the other players even recognise that cheating is occuring ?
Thats why i think that the game engine should provide a check on the doctrine files, enforce that fact that every player must have the same files (even if in the actual game the engine uses only the doctrine files of the hoster).

[LuftWolf]

Yes, LWAMI is a horrible, horrible cheat.

You guys just don't know it yet...

[OKO]

Originally Posted by Sonoboy

I've heard that some people are calling the LWAMI mod a cheat. I'm curious to know why some people think of it that way.

I've heard that Sonoboy is a green and small E.T. coming from Andromeda.
I'm just curious to know why some people think of him that way.