Europe's migrant problem - Page 17

CCIP · 09-13-15, 06:43 AM

See, that's what I don't get - there's all these scares about "immigrants coming in and changing laws to fit their culture", but I'm yet to see many substantive examples of that in law. Usually it's the opposite - see all the pushes to outlaw veils etc. The only two areas where I see religious law being allowed is 1) religious arbitration (e.g. allowing certain minorities to conduct things like family court, marriage and divorce, minor civil cases according to their customs); 2) education (religious schools). But those are the same rights that the religious majority has always had, or else goodbye Sunday schools and church weddings. Everything else is not law - schoolboards and government organizations might get zealous in enforcing political correctness, but fundamentally it's not law in any cases that I've seen. Things like food control/options? Purely a commercial choice - and they're controlled by voluntary business associations, not governments. I'd also remind that many other minorities have always had such organizations and pushed for similar rights in education and family law. I also remind that many foreign countries have always afforded similar rights to their minorities. If you look at Syria as it was, what you'll find is a lot of religious diversity and a complex minority picture. Many of these people are coming in precisely with that, and those most vulnerable aren't even from the dominant religion.

A lot of this is just hot air being blown by conservatives trying to instill a sense of fragility/entitlement on people that are neither fragile nor constitutionally entitled to have special protections for their collective ego.

Betonov · 09-13-15, 07:16 AM

The Islamists that would want Europe to change their laws to suit them forget one thing. Same thing the paranoid people forget.

It takes 5 elections to prepare a law, let alone pass it !!!!!!
By this rate we will have Sharia in 2487.

MGR1 · 09-13-15, 01:29 PM

Weeelllll.....

That's Germany introduced "temporary" border controls and a 12 hour suspension of rail traffic between itself and Austria, in co-operation with the Austrian Government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34239674

Mike.

mapuc · 09-13-15, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

The Islamists that would want Europe to change their laws to suit them forget one thing. Same thing the paranoid people forget.

It takes 5 elections to prepare a law, let alone pass it !!!!!!
By this rate we will have Sharia in 2487.

Our famous bureaucratic

Which comes first Sharia-by election or as I have read now and then
- We will out-birth you just wait-postet by person with Muslim-like name(It could very well be fake-profile)

Fake or not-in 2007/8 in a Swedish or in a Danish newspaper-an article was about the different in birth rate between "our people" and refugees/immigrant-

Our own=1.6/8 Them 2.3/3.2

It is totally impossible to calculate when this could happen and if it ever will happen. There are so many factors, known and mostly unknown

Markus

Aktungbby · 09-13-15, 01:54 PM

^ that link clarifies things

Betonov · 09-13-15, 01:57 PM

I'd avoid Albania too.
It's hard having almost nothing left and then have even that stolen away from you.

Aktungbby · 09-13-15, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

The Islamists that would want Europe to change their laws to suit them forget one thing. Same thing the paranoid people forget.

It takes 5 elections to prepare a law, let alone pass it !!!!!!
By this rate we will have Sharia in 2487.

By then, I in my cross-dressing Niqab,

having acquired the Knack of bending my knees 5 times a day in prayer, will be humming along to a hastily reworked MY Sharia:

...BBY!

ikalugin · 09-13-15, 06:13 PM

I would say that the issue is not with passing the laws now, the issue is ignoring the local laws and customs and introducing a paralel legal system. Now, this should not be possible, but the fear is that the liberal crowd would preclude enforcing the local laws and customs and removing the paralel legal system should it take hold.

In my opinion such fears have very little to be based upon, however EU has to get it's policy to solve the crisis apparent moving.

That said, seeing the world burn may be most amusing.

ikalugin · 09-13-15, 07:03 PM

It may be OT, but what would a prepper do, when looking at possible mass kababification of his country?

Rockstar · 09-13-15, 07:08 PM

So after all the hoopala this topic has generated. It basically boils down to war sucks and as long as its not my country taking in the massive flood of asylum seekers. The host nation just needs to stop being such paranoid xenophobes, deal with it and stop complaining.

about right?

Rockstar · 09-13-15, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Fixed, and yeah, about right.

lol. Im sure 'Europe' would love to take credit for the great humanitarian aid and tolerance given to the mass of refugees entering Germany.

FLASH it has been reported by the daily fail Germany has closed its borders. Here's the chance for the rest of Europe to step up to the plate. Maybe 'Europe' could take in a couple of hundred thousand head. <crickets>

Catfish · 09-14-15, 03:05 AM

Bavaria has closed its borders, but since it is Bavaria bordering Austria it is as if Germany would have closed its borders.

It has done so for organistaion problems though, after all there were 46,000 immigrants arriving in Munich the day before the weekend, so they just did not have enough shelters, and lots of logistic problems. And winter's coming.

Closing the border cannot be the solution though. Maybe we should send some of the immigrants to the US ? After all, they are not completely innocent when it comes to the situation in the Middle east.
Yes i know, the US surely did not want the situation as it is there, but you know "the road to hell is plastered with good intentions".

So..
The root of the problem lies in the Middle East?
The root of the problem lies in the West, because we live on their oil, and our "influence" created the situation?

Anyway we will not find a solution for anything, before the ME problems are not somehow solved.
Europe can help to solve problems, but it did not create those problems, at least not alone.
And, does England belong to Europe politically, or not?
It does, but it does not want to?

CCIP · 09-14-15, 03:24 AM

There's some voices in the Canadian military establishment, including the former chief of defense staff Hillier, suggesting that Canada could step up and bring as many as many as 50,000 by the end of the year, with military logistics being used for the purpose. I'd say we go for it - far better and more Canadian use for our military than what they've been up to lately.

Skybird · 09-14-15, 07:15 AM

It has been stated by professional helpers working in the organised structure of aid organisations dealing with the influx, that registration and controls so far revealed that

- at least 20% of the "refugees" are being Maroccan or Algerian, coming from the socalled Levante,

- around 25-30% of the "refugees" are coming from Albania, Kosovo (the EU's Sim-City-kind of private hobby), and Bosnia Herzegovina.

The public debate in Germany less and lesser discriminates between the terms "migrant", and "refugee", however. Which is a declaration of moral and and intellectual bancrupcty. It totally destroys the meaning of the legal good named "asylum".

Merkel has gone crashdiving. The closing of the border and the state of things over here clearly indicate how dramatically she has misjudged simply everything related to this crisis: Germany, Europe, the EU - just everything.

"Hundreds of thousands" of Lebanese are reported to prepare for their leaving towards Germany, we learnt yesterday.

It'S autumn. When you look at meadows and free areals in nature, soon you can see migratory birds slowly preparing for their trip to the south. Clap your hands, or see just one bird lifting off - and the rest of the huge swarms knows no rest and no halt anymore and takes off immediately in one big rush.

You cannot take back that clap of your hands.

Just that this Völkerwanderung is from South to North.

Meanwhile, their Muslim brothers and sisters care for what really matters: the saudis have again build a tent city at Mekka, 20 square kilometers in size. High tehc tents with teflon coating and luxurious air conditioning.

Syria may suck, but the cult for stone must live on! Even better if the infidels get weakened and must pay for it.

Rockstar · 09-14-15, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Bavaria has closed its borders, but since it is Bavaria bordering Austria it is as if Germany would have closed its borders.

It has done so for organistaion problems though, after all there were 46,000 immigrants arriving in Munich the day before the weekend, so they just did not have enough shelters, and lots of logistic problems. And winter's coming.

Closing the border cannot be the solution though. Maybe we should send some of the immigrants to the US ? After all, they are not completely innocent when it comes to the situation in the Middle east.
Yes i know, the US surely did not want the situation as it is there, but you know "the road to hell is plastered with good intentions".

So..
The root of the problem lies in the Middle East?
The root of the problem lies in the West, because we live on their oil, and our "influence" created the situation?

Anyway we will not find a solution for anything, before the ME problems are not somehow solved.
Europe can help to solve problems, but it did not create those problems, at least not alone.
And, does England belong to Europe politically, or not?
It does, but it does not want to?

I was casually looking up U.S. immigration statistics. I could find details about many peoples but not any from the middle east. Though there was a group called 'other' and that was about 30,000,000.

But yes we have plenty of room and choice of locations, climates and altitudes., bring'em on. But they process IAW SOP.

09-13-15, 06:43 AM	#241
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	See, that's what I don't get - there's all these scares about "immigrants coming in and changing laws to fit their culture", but I'm yet to see many substantive examples of that in law. Usually it's the opposite - see all the pushes to outlaw veils etc. The only two areas where I see religious law being allowed is 1) religious arbitration (e.g. allowing certain minorities to conduct things like family court, marriage and divorce, minor civil cases according to their customs); 2) education (religious schools). But those are the same rights that the religious majority has always had, or else goodbye Sunday schools and church weddings. Everything else is not law - schoolboards and government organizations might get zealous in enforcing political correctness, but fundamentally it's not law in any cases that I've seen. Things like food control/options? Purely a commercial choice - and they're controlled by voluntary business associations, not governments. I'd also remind that many other minorities have always had such organizations and pushed for similar rights in education and family law. I also remind that many foreign countries have always afforded similar rights to their minorities. If you look at Syria as it was, what you'll find is a lot of religious diversity and a complex minority picture. Many of these people are coming in precisely with that, and those most vulnerable aren't even from the dominant religion. A lot of this is just hot air being blown by conservatives trying to instill a sense of fragility/entitlement on people that are neither fragile nor constitutionally entitled to have special protections for their collective ego. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

09-13-15, 01:29 PM	#243
MGR1 Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, United Kingdom Posts: 980 Downloads: 252 Uploads: 0	Weeelllll..... That's Germany introduced "temporary" border controls and a 12 hour suspension of rail traffic between itself and Austria, in co-operation with the Austrian Government. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34239674 Mike. __________________ "I am the battleship Jean Bart. This name originates from a certain 'respected' privateer... Yes? You want to know what privateers are? Hmph, they are pirates that rob openly under the banner of their country." Jean Bart from the mobile game Azur Lane.

09-13-15, 01:54 PM	#245
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,150 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	^ that link clarifies things __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

09-13-15, 06:13 PM	#248
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I would say that the issue is not with passing the laws now, the issue is ignoring the local laws and customs and introducing a paralel legal system. Now, this should not be possible, but the fear is that the liberal crowd would preclude enforcing the local laws and customs and removing the paralel legal system should it take hold. In my opinion such fears have very little to be based upon, however EU has to get it's policy to solve the crisis apparent moving. That said, seeing the world burn may be most amusing. __________________ Grumpy as always. Last edited by ikalugin; 09-13-15 at 06:18 PM.

09-13-15, 07:03 PM	#249
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	It may be OT, but what would a prepper do, when looking at possible mass kababification of his country? __________________ Grumpy as always.

09-13-15, 07:16 AM	#242
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	The Islamists that would want Europe to change their laws to suit them forget one thing. Same thing the paranoid people forget. It takes 5 elections to prepare a law, let alone pass it !!!!!! By this rate we will have Sharia in 2487.

09-13-15, 01:57 PM	#246
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I'd avoid Albania too. It's hard having almost nothing left and then have even that stolen away from you.

09-13-15, 07:08 PM	#250
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	So after all the hoopala this topic has generated. It basically boils down to war sucks and as long as its not my country taking in the massive flood of asylum seekers. The host nation just needs to stop being such paranoid xenophobes, deal with it and stop complaining. about right? Last edited by Rockstar; 09-13-15 at 07:17 PM.

09-14-15, 03:05 AM	#252
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,820 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Bavaria has closed its borders, but since it is Bavaria bordering Austria it is as if Germany would have closed its borders. It has done so for organistaion problems though, after all there were 46,000 immigrants arriving in Munich the day before the weekend, so they just did not have enough shelters, and lots of logistic problems. And winter's coming. Closing the border cannot be the solution though. Maybe we should send some of the immigrants to the US ? After all, they are not completely innocent when it comes to the situation in the Middle east. Yes i know, the US surely did not want the situation as it is there, but you know "the road to hell is plastered with good intentions". So.. The root of the problem lies in the Middle East? The root of the problem lies in the West, because we live on their oil, and our "influence" created the situation? Anyway we will not find a solution for anything, before the ME problems are not somehow solved. Europe can help to solve problems, but it did not create those problems, at least not alone. And, does England belong to Europe politically, or not? It does, but it does not want to? __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 09-14-15 at 03:24 AM.*

09-14-15, 03:24 AM	#253
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	There's some voices in the Canadian military establishment, including the former chief of defense staff Hillier, suggesting that Canada could step up and bring as many as many as 50,000 by the end of the year, with military logistics being used for the purpose. I'd say we go for it - far better and more Canadian use for our military than what they've been up to lately. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

09-14-15, 07:15 AM	#254
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,800 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It has been stated by professional helpers working in the organised structure of aid organisations dealing with the influx, that registration and controls so far revealed that - at least 20% of the "refugees" are being Maroccan or Algerian, coming from the socalled Levante, - around 25-30% of the "refugees" are coming from Albania, Kosovo (the EU's Sim-City-kind of private hobby), and Bosnia Herzegovina. The public debate in Germany less and lesser discriminates between the terms "migrant", and "refugee", however. Which is a declaration of moral and and intellectual bancrupcty. It totally destroys the meaning of the legal good named "asylum". Merkel has gone crashdiving. The closing of the border and the state of things over here clearly indicate how dramatically she has misjudged simply everything related to this crisis: Germany, Europe, the EU - just everything. "Hundreds of thousands" of Lebanese are reported to prepare for their leaving towards Germany, we learnt yesterday. It'S autumn. When you look at meadows and free areals in nature, soon you can see migratory birds slowly preparing for their trip to the south. Clap your hands, or see just one bird lifting off - and the rest of the huge swarms knows no rest and no halt anymore and takes off immediately in one big rush. You cannot take back that clap of your hands. Just that this Völkerwanderung is from South to North. Meanwhile, their Muslim brothers and sisters care for what really matters: the saudis have again build a tent city at Mekka, 20 square kilometers in size. High tehc tents with teflon coating and luxurious air conditioning. Syria may suck, but the cult for stone must live on! Even better if the infidels get weakened and must pay for it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 09-14-15 at 07:22 AM.