I'M IN THE US NAVY!!

jorgegonzalito · 08-01-15, 05:36 PM

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fitzcarraldo · 08-01-15, 05:49 PM

Welcome to the Pacific!

Bienvenido!

Fitzcarraldo

Rockin Robbins · 08-01-15, 08:21 PM

The problem with playing as a German U-boat is that the U-boat was an entirely inappropriate weapon for Germany to use, which had no capacity to win the war or even its part in the war. Every pfennig spent on a U-Boat, every man wasted in one was a nail in the coffin of the Third Reich. I'm not even going to visit the subject of the evil of the Nazi party and of the state of Germany as a result. I'm only going to talk about whether U-Boats contributed to Germany's potential victory or contributed to their defeat.

The U-Boat was a weapon directed at only one nation on earth: The UK. The plan was that they could starve Britain into surrender and consolidate their gains on the continent. But they made a fatal mistake in planning. You see US submarines were appropriate for use against Japan because all Japanese supplies came in and out of Japan on Japanese bottoms. When we sank a ship it was a Japanese ship and we were directly contributing to their defeat. Maybe you can see where I'm going here.

Because the UK was VERY different. Supplies coming there came on the bottoms of all the nations of the world, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, the United States, Canada, and in order to stop those supplies it was necessary to sink vessels of all those other nations. What was the unavoidable and foreseeable result of unconditional submarine warfare? That's right, Germany against the world. That included the staunchly isolationist United States. US entry into the war absolutely guaranteed the defeat of Germany. U-Boats made US entry equally guaranteed.

Now some have said (while calling me stupid in very picturesque and entertaining ways that discredited them greatly) the US didn't declare war on Germany, Germany declared war on the US. That is true. The day after the Pearl Harbor attack Hitler decided he'd make a show of unity with his buddy the Emporer and declare war.

But he was already at war with the US. What was the lend-lease program of US destroyers to the British with American crews aboard sinking U-Boats but war against Germany? What was allowing Churchill and cabinet to set up government offices in New York City as a precaution against possible British defeat but taking the British side in the war? By sinking American ships the Germans had already begun to reap their just reward. Hitler's declaration was just showmanship without substance.

And what could a U-Boat do against the US? Sink a cornfield in Kansas? A stockyard in Chicago? A Boeing plant in Washington? What could a U-Boat or even two dozen U-Boats do against a thousand ship convoy and there were dozens of those? The U-Boat was too slow, didn't carry enough armament to make any impact at all. The surface was entirely controlled by the Allies with no help anywhere for a U-Boat. As soon as it left port it was on its own.

Admiral Daniel Gallery, who led an American Jeep carrier force on the Atlantic turned U-Boat hunting into a science. Sight a U-boat. Force it down. Now you can draw a circle representing its maximum range before it has to surface for air. Cover that circle with aircraft. Dead U-Boat.

What would the vaunted Type XXI have done? Why, they would have made Admiral Gallery draw a larger circle. The result would be the same because the surface of the Atlantic was an Allied fishing pond. Snorkels were as visible on radar as a battleship. The Type XXI was just a different style coffin.

U-boats never had any capacity to win. They guaranteed the entry of the United States and a dozen other nations into the war against Germany. And for what?

They were supposed to defeat Britain, the one country on earth most disposed to be Germany's friend. In fact Britain came a hair's breadth from allying with Germany. We all think the abdication of King Edward VIII was all about Wallace Simpson, the "woman I love." That is false, it was about his sympathy for Nazi Germany and his desire to ally with Germany. Churchill stood almost alone as he garnered the coalition he needed to ouster this renegade king and avoid the alliance. He did it knowing the result would be war.

However, Britain was tired of war. They had lost an entire generation just 20 years before and had no stomach for a repeat. What if the Germans had bought a vowel? What if they had used craftiness instead of skullduggery? They steamrollered France, consolidating their hold on the continent. The British army had been shoved into Dunkirk to be evacuated by every boat those on the island of Britain could muster. The Luftwaffe didn't attack. Why?

Doesn't matter. What if Hitler would have waited for the British to have their army safely home? "To our British friends. You have done your job well. You had to be on the continent to honor your treaty obligations and you have done your duty. You can be justly proud of your efforts, but now your obligation is satisfied.

Germany and Britain have always been close. Our royal families are brothers, mothers, sons, daughters. Of all the nations on earth, we have the most in common. We are natural friends.

Your army is safe because I directed that no land or air attacks be made on your withdrawing troops. There is no reason for further bloodletting between us. Let us declare peace, holding our present borders, safely separated by the English Channel and forge a new future as partners in a new world we will mold in our image."

But those DAMNED submarines! Every one of them would put the lie to such a crafty and probably effective appeal to a war weary Britain. Without them the appeal would be very persuasive and probably successful. Let's quit and divide the booty. War over!

The U-boats were unnecessary. They were ineffective. They never had the capacity to deliver victory but carried the guarantee of German defeat. Every pfennig spent, every man enlisted in their service was entirely wasted--an actual contribution to the war finances of the enemy. The use of submarines in the war amounted to treason against the German state.

jorgegonzalito · 08-01-15, 08:48 PM

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Torplexed · 08-01-15, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

I installed Silent Hunter IV 1.4 update for now. I like! It is similar to SH3 but better! I like American submarines! Now I see that I should install mods for version 1.4.

Congratulations on the change of ocean! Give 'em Hell Jorge.

Crannogman · 08-01-15, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

I installed Silent Hunter IV 1.4 update for now. I like! It is similar to SH3 but better! I like American submarines! Now I see that I should install mods for version 1.4.

Woot! But you should consider upgrading to 1.5 before modding up

Rockin Robbins · 08-01-15, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Congratulations on the change of ocean! Give 'em Hell Jorge.

That is GENIUS! I love it!

Jorge, I was just saying that when you play an American submarine you have the sense that you're using an appropriate weapon that makes a major contribution to victory.

When I play the U-boat I get that feeling of futility that I don't carry enough firepower into battle to make a difference. It's a fatalism that there is no path to victory or even survival itself. And that lead to my analysis of why U-boats were a total waste of money, men, ability, courage and dedication for Germany.

I thought it was a fairly well thought out and interesting analysis that I've never heard from anyone else.

jorgegonzalito · 08-01-15, 11:59 PM

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Rockin Robbins · 08-02-15, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

ROCKIN ROBBINS:
Everything you say is true, and well you know the "Kaleun" SH3 and SH5, but as smokers knowing that the cigarettes kill, continue to smoke; they are putting on the uniform of the Kriegsmarine every day. We all know what is the truth, but "that does not speak".

It was a fascinating time. The atmosphere of SH3 is so different from SH4--part of the genius of SH3 is that the resignation and sense of doom flows through the game, giving the game an authentic atmosphere. The art, the colors, the lighting, everything combines to create something more than the individual parts.

Everything is centered around the crew, skilled, reliable, reluctantly serving a state which is in the grip of evil, they will do their duty as well as they possibly can. SH3 is a tribute to courage for a patently awful cause. And you leave the game understanding that these men were admirable.

I just brought the big picture that no historian to date that I know of has put to words: that the use of U-Boats was but one of a collection of fatal mistakes of the Third Reich, any one of which was sufficient to ensure defeat. And that the use of U-Boats alone would spell the doom of Germany in that war. From that perspective their abilities and courage resulted in a better world, for the Allies AND for Germany. They didn't die in vain.

u crank · 08-02-15, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

It was a fascinating time. The atmosphere of SH3 is so different from SH4--part of the genius of SH3 is that the resignation and sense of doom flows through the game, giving the game an authentic atmosphere. The art, the colors, the lighting, everything combines to create something more than the individual parts.

Everything is centered around the crew, skilled, reliable, reluctantly serving a state which is in the grip of evil, they will do their duty as well as they possibly can. SH3 is a tribute to courage for a patently awful cause. And you leave the game understanding that these men were admirable.

Very well said. From my many years of playing SH3/GWX, in order to get the complete immersion experience one has to have a certain mind set. Part of that mind set is a knowledge of just who these men were and how they got to be in a U boat in WW2. That is easy to find out. Books, movies and the internet. Part of the reason I have been attracted to the game was not because these men were German or that their country was controlled by a Nazi dictator. It was because of the position these men found themselves in. Fate deals some bad hands.

The other and equally important part is that you have to 'imagine' that you have no knowledge of what is about to transpire. Playing the game and thinking the whole time that "I'm on the wrong side, that we are going to lose and that I am probably going to die" would for me make the game unplayable. In a simulation, immersion is a very large part of the experience. At least it is for me.

Crannogman · 08-02-15, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

TORPLEXED:
Although the only thing that is in my way to be a Sampan, blot the water! Revenge for Pearl Harbour!

CRANOGMAN:
I tried installing the V.1.5 did not work for some kind of version incompatibility problem. Perhaps you've downloaded free. However, the mod "Clayp's Optics for TMO" it is for version 1.4 does not work, the game is closed. Many patches and patches ......

ROCKIN ROBBINS:
Everything you say is true, and well you know the "Kaleun" SH3 and SH5, but as smokers knowing that the cigarettes kill, continue to smoke; they are putting on the uniform of the Kriegsmarine every day. We all know what is the truth, but "that does not speak".

1.5 is a pay-for upgrade also-known-as U-Boat Missions. It has a lot of useful game improvements for the US campaign, and most of the better meds are built for 1.5. You can usually find it for $5-10 US. If it won't work, uninstall and try again

Torplexed · 08-02-15, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That is GENIUS! I love it!

Thanks. I used to use it as a tower emblem to taunt the Japanese when I commanded the USS Whale.

TorpX · 08-02-15, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I just brought the big picture that no historian to date that I know of has put to words: that the use of U-Boats was but one of a collection of fatal mistakes of the Third Reich, any one of which was sufficient to ensure defeat. And that the use of U-Boats alone would spell the doom of Germany in that war.

That sounds pretty close to Blair's version of the Battle of the Atlantic: That is, that while the U-boats sank a lot of ships, the flow of supplies was never close to being cut off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by u crank

The other and equally important part is that you have to 'imagine' that you have no knowledge of what is about to transpire. ... In a simulation, immersion is a very large part of the experience. At least it is for me.

I agree. When I start a SH4 career, I don't think Oh, this will be easy; victory is inevitable... I think about how Manila, Singapore and Surabaya are falling like dominoes, and the Pacific Fleet is a pile of smoking wreckage.

Raptor_Pilot · 08-02-15, 10:23 PM

When I play Silent Hunter 3, my only overriding concern is the will to survive. That's really what the game is all about, the ability to survive ever increasing odds.

When I play Silent Hunter 4, my overall concern is to sink as much tonnage as possible.

I play SH3 for the fatalistic sense of nervous tension and overriding doom. I play SH4 because it's fun.

jorgegonzalito · 08-03-15, 04:24 PM

NNN

08-01-15, 05:36 PM	#1
jorgegonzalito Officer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina. Posts: 237 Downloads: 322 Uploads: 0	I'M IN THE US NAVY!! NNN Last edited by jorgegonzalito; 08-11-15 at 02:39 AM.

08-01-15, 05:49 PM	#2
fitzcarraldo Argentinian Skipper Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Somewhere between Buenos Aires and the Bungo Suido Posts: 5,318 Downloads: 3346 Uploads: 0	Welcome to the Pacific! Bienvenido! Fitzcarraldo __________________ *My subject is War, and the pity of War. The Poetry is in the pity - Wilfred Owen.*

08-01-15, 08:21 PM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	The problem with playing as a German U-boat is that the U-boat was an entirely inappropriate weapon for Germany to use, which had no capacity to win the war or even its part in the war. Every pfennig spent on a U-Boat, every man wasted in one was a nail in the coffin of the Third Reich. I'm not even going to visit the subject of the evil of the Nazi party and of the state of Germany as a result. I'm only going to talk about whether U-Boats contributed to Germany's potential victory or contributed to their defeat. The U-Boat was a weapon directed at only one nation on earth: The UK. The plan was that they could starve Britain into surrender and consolidate their gains on the continent. But they made a fatal mistake in planning. You see US submarines were appropriate for use against Japan because all Japanese supplies came in and out of Japan on Japanese bottoms. When we sank a ship it was a Japanese ship and we were directly contributing to their defeat. Maybe you can see where I'm going here. Because the UK was VERY different. Supplies coming there came on the bottoms of all the nations of the world, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, the United States, Canada, and in order to stop those supplies it was necessary to sink vessels of all those other nations. What was the unavoidable and foreseeable result of unconditional submarine warfare? That's right, Germany against the world. That included the staunchly isolationist United States. US entry into the war absolutely guaranteed the defeat of Germany. U-Boats made US entry equally guaranteed. Now some have said (while calling me stupid in very picturesque and entertaining ways that discredited them greatly) the US didn't declare war on Germany, Germany declared war on the US. That is true. The day after the Pearl Harbor attack Hitler decided he'd make a show of unity with his buddy the Emporer and declare war. But he was already at war with the US. What was the lend-lease program of US destroyers to the British with American crews aboard sinking U-Boats but war against Germany? What was allowing Churchill and cabinet to set up government offices in New York City as a precaution against possible British defeat but taking the British side in the war? By sinking American ships the Germans had already begun to reap their just reward. Hitler's declaration was just showmanship without substance. And what could a U-Boat do against the US? Sink a cornfield in Kansas? A stockyard in Chicago? A Boeing plant in Washington? What could a U-Boat or even two dozen U-Boats do against a thousand ship convoy and there were dozens of those? The U-Boat was too slow, didn't carry enough armament to make any impact at all. The surface was entirely controlled by the Allies with no help anywhere for a U-Boat. As soon as it left port it was on its own. Admiral Daniel Gallery, who led an American Jeep carrier force on the Atlantic turned U-Boat hunting into a science. Sight a U-boat. Force it down. Now you can draw a circle representing its maximum range before it has to surface for air. Cover that circle with aircraft. Dead U-Boat. What would the vaunted Type XXI have done? Why, they would have made Admiral Gallery draw a larger circle. The result would be the same because the surface of the Atlantic was an Allied fishing pond. Snorkels were as visible on radar as a battleship. The Type XXI was just a different style coffin. U-boats never had any capacity to win. They guaranteed the entry of the United States and a dozen other nations into the war against Germany. And for what? They were supposed to defeat Britain, the one country on earth most disposed to be Germany's friend. In fact Britain came a hair's breadth from allying with Germany. We all think the abdication of King Edward VIII was all about Wallace Simpson, the "woman I love." That is false, it was about his sympathy for Nazi Germany and his desire to ally with Germany. Churchill stood almost alone as he garnered the coalition he needed to ouster this renegade king and avoid the alliance. He did it knowing the result would be war. However, Britain was tired of war. They had lost an entire generation just 20 years before and had no stomach for a repeat. What if the Germans had bought a vowel? What if they had used craftiness instead of skullduggery? They steamrollered France, consolidating their hold on the continent. The British army had been shoved into Dunkirk to be evacuated by every boat those on the island of Britain could muster. The Luftwaffe didn't attack. Why? Doesn't matter. What if Hitler would have waited for the British to have their army safely home? "To our British friends. You have done your job well. You had to be on the continent to honor your treaty obligations and you have done your duty. You can be justly proud of your efforts, but now your obligation is satisfied. Germany and Britain have always been close. Our royal families are brothers, mothers, sons, daughters. Of all the nations on earth, we have the most in common. We are natural friends. Your army is safe because I directed that no land or air attacks be made on your withdrawing troops. There is no reason for further bloodletting between us. Let us declare peace, holding our present borders, safely separated by the English Channel and forge a new future as partners in a new world we will mold in our image." But those DAMNED submarines! Every one of them would put the lie to such a crafty and probably effective appeal to a war weary Britain. Without them the appeal would be very persuasive and probably successful. Let's quit and divide the booty. War over! The U-boats were unnecessary. They were ineffective. They never had the capacity to deliver victory but carried the guarantee of German defeat. Every pfennig spent, every man enlisted in their service was entirely wasted--an actual contribution to the war finances of the enemy. The use of submarines in the war amounted to treason against the German state. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-01-15, 08:48 PM	#4
jorgegonzalito Officer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina. Posts: 237 Downloads: 322 Uploads: 0	NNN Last edited by jorgegonzalito; 08-11-15 at 02:39 AM.

08-01-15, 11:59 PM	#8
jorgegonzalito Officer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina. Posts: 237 Downloads: 322 Uploads: 0	NNN Last edited by jorgegonzalito; 08-11-15 at 02:39 AM.

08-02-15, 10:23 PM	#14
Raptor_Pilot WORST. KALEUN. EVER. Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 61 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	When I play Silent Hunter 3, my only overriding concern is the will to survive. That's really what the game is all about, the ability to survive ever increasing odds. When I play Silent Hunter 4, my overall concern is to sink as much tonnage as possible. I play SH3 for the fatalistic sense of nervous tension and overriding doom. I play SH4 because it's fun.

08-03-15, 04:24 PM	#15
jorgegonzalito Officer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina. Posts: 237 Downloads: 322 Uploads: 0	NNN Last edited by jorgegonzalito; 08-11-15 at 02:40 AM.