Hardcore range finding

[bstanko6]

I am asking for trouble but i got to know. How do you find range manually. I get the formula R = M/tan() but when i do this i usually get the wrong answer. I think there is more to this procedure. Wasn't there a chart available on the ranging?

[GoldenRivet]

where U-boat firing solutions are concerned, range is only an issue in determining the time of travel so you have a "countdown" to impact against the target.

If i remember correctly, German U-boats did not make use of a stadimeter in the way that American fleet boats did. so their inclusion in SH3 is somewhat unrealistic.

In reality, German U-boats owed a lot of their success to the way they computed solutions to target by snap observations and quick judgements.

Generally, a target's speed and angle on bow would be estimated visually, as would the range. The only known variables to the solution which were 100% accurate would have been U-boat speed, course, bearing to target and speed of the torpedo and only because you would know these things about your own boat.

all things considered, with a German TDC, range had the least impact on solution accuracy compared to all other variables.

I highly recommend something actual German U-boat commanders used called the T.L.A.R. method. and it is something i use on my 100% realism campaigns in Silent Hunter III

The T.L.A.R. method is quick and simple, requires absolutely zero number crunching or lengthy calculations, it yields a reasonable result with an acceptable margin of error, and becomes more accurate the more often you use it.

to apply the T.L.A.R. method, first, observe the target through the periscope or UZO

then say "That Looks About Right" - then enter the value you felt looked about right into the TDC.

once you have completed entry of the remaining variables - Speed and AOB - fire the torpedo.

If you scored a hit, you have properly used the T.L.A.R. method

If you missed the target, continue practicing the T.L.A.R. method, you'll get it sooner or later

[sublynx]

TLAR is the recommended way IMO as well.

If you can't see the enemy you can use Kuikueg's four bearing method or the two sets of bearings method described in the 1941 US Navy Maneuvering board manual.

[Pisces]

You can plot over a longer time and track, and calculate the average movement of it. Over a known time you'll have speed which it what you really need for the TDC. If your range accuracy is only good enough to lets say 2 km, but then trail it and letting it move 20 km before the next plot is made, then you still have a 90% accurate target motion plotted.

Also, if your range accuracy isn't good, consider fixing his forward movement with a periscope bearing only. Start thinking of them as start- and finish-lines. Bearings from the periscope are usually much narrower than the in-line inaccuracy of your range measurements. This works best when viewing it from its beam/side while following it. Due to the range inaccuracy of your plots the course accuracy fails a bit, but again, over longer stretches this becomes less of a problem. You just have to be lucky it doesn't make any turns and have to start over again. Plot often and make best use of your position to track it!

[bstanko6]

from experience, i do not about the range effecting strike time of torpedo. I just always thought it also effected the gyro angle ( further the target away, the wider the angle) and o forth. I never knew it was simpler than that.

[Pisces]

Range is important when torpedoes need to turn (much) to close range targets. Due to the torpedo trajectory as it approaches the target from a slightly different angle, due to a parallax effect. The closer the target is, the more the correction. But the target's angular size can help as it gets bigger when closer.

AOB, target speed and torpedo speed is enough to draw a closed triangle (the periscope line of sight closes it). Range only determines how large the triangle becomes. The shape is already fixed. More distant targets take more time to get to the impact point, as do the torpedoes on their part. The other internal angles (and 'target-torpedo closure' speed along the line of sight bearing) can then be figured out geometrically or by the Law of Sines (which the TDC handles) As you shoot the torpedo primarily based on a lead-angle (gyro-periscope bearing), it should hit whenever time runs out. Target speed and AOB is what you need to get right!

[flag4]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

...to apply the T.L.A.R. method, first, observe the target through the periscope or UZO

then say "That Looks About Right" - then enter the value you felt looked about right into the TDC.

once you have completed entry of the remaining variables - Speed and AOB - fire the torpedo.

If you scored a hit, you have properly used the T.L.A.R. method

If you missed the target, continue practicing the T.L.A.R. method, you'll get it sooner or later

...no hint of Irony?

[GoldenRivet]

[Tupolev]

I highly recommend reading Hitman's information included with his excellent (Hitman's) Optics mod.

After I read that, I figured out why range estimation is vastly less important than speed estimation.

T

[Zosimus]

As far as I understand, a captain would get a speed and AOB estimation from his 1WO and 2WO, estimations that often differed. Then it would be up to the captain to decide which estimate was right, or to use his own.

SH3 doesn't offer that.

You can get a fairly good range estimate from your hydrophone. It's not spot on, but it's good enough.

Or, if you're close enough and have map contacts on, you can just look at the map and the ship will be placed. Use a ruler to get the distance. That's pretty good.

Of course when people start with a "hardcore range finding" that usually means that they want to do it the hard way to prove something to themselves or others.

Good luck with that.

[maillemaker]

Yup, as others have said, target speed is the most important variable.

The good news is most targets move about 7 knots. If you fire from within 1000 meters, you'll probably hit them with this speed setting.

Steve