"Fury" - Movie. Bollywood Boycott Time again

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You are denying the scale of the crime and rejected the magnitude of the crime

Wrong. You should do some research on the infamous 6 million figure of the holocaust.
And you will, as most of us that have researched that number, come to the conclusion that the number hasn't always been 6 million. In fact, it has been revised so many times.
That is why i used the word alleged. In context. Not out of context.

The context is that you are upset that the Nazis are portrayed as bad guys in a movie

Let's remember though, there is a difference between Germans and Nazis.

and your justification is that the Stalinists were bad guys too.

Well of course it's justifiably so, that the Communist USSR was bad.
Really bad.
So bad in fact that they killed more than Hitler.
That makes them bad guys. In anyone's book.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I guess you would rather not exist due to the extermination of Polish population I guess.

who the...are you and what do you want from me?

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

So did Soviets have a program for physical removal of 90 percent of Polish population? How many Polish were murdered by Soviets (compared to Germans)?

Or do you deny existence of General Plan East?

The non-aggression pact had a secret protocol that divided regions, Poland amongst others into SOI's.

17 September Stalin ordered his own invasion of Poland.
Both shared goals of eradication.

You should also know that the Poles were considered enemies of communism and Russia national inspirations.

[ikalugin]

The non-aggression pact had a secret protocol that divided regions, Poland amongst others into SOI's.

17 September Stalin ordered his own invasion of Poland.
Both shared goals of eradication.

So did the Soviets or did they not have plans as to physical removal of Polish population on the scale that NAZI Germany did (90 percent under General Plan Ost)?

If so, do you have any evidence that such plan existed and/or was under execution by Soviet authorities?

[Feuer Frei!]

So if i can't prove any evidence does that mean Joseph is exhonerated from genocide and nominated for a post-humos nobel peace prize?
Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

Typical allied puppet show.

If you do some research on STalin's intense dislike towards Poles from the Polish-Soviet war 1919-1920, and an order given by our nobel nominee in 1940 following the katyn massacre, you will be well on the way to getting your proof.

Polish reverse Officers, ethnic Poles, deportations, also google Lavrenty Beria.

Sorry to say but Stalin isn't going to become innocent. As much as some wish it.

[ikalugin]

Just to clarify my position.

- I separate Germans from the NAZI organisations and government, as per Nurenberg trial NAZI party and relevant organisations illegally siezed power in Germany.

- Stalin (and Soviet regime) was a lesser evil than Hitler (and NAZI regime) due to the fact that even though it was harsh and unforgiving, it did not plan for physical eradication of entire other people as such.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

So if i can't prove any evidence does that mean Joseph is exhonerated from genocide and nominated for a post-humos nobel peace prize?
Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

Typical allied puppet show.

If you do some research on STalin's intense dislike towards Poles from the Polish-Soviet war 1919-1920, and an order given by our nobel nominee in 1940 following the katyn massacre, you will be well on the way to getting your proof.

Polish reverse Officers, ethnic Poles, deportations, also google Lavrenty Beria.

Sorry to say but Stalin isn't going to become innocent. As much as some wish it.

Feeling revisionist now? Should we revise the Nurenberg entirely and levy responsibility of NAZI regime on the Germans then?

So did or did Soviets not plan physical removal of Polish population (and execute any part of such plan) on the same scale as NAZI Germany (ie 90 percent)?

Stalin was not pretty, just not as evil as a certain criminal regime Germany had.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

11 million dear.
You forgot all the victims of the holocaust through the stuff you said the Nazis didn't do.

Didn't do? Oh dear....a snowball effect is happening here.
I'll make it stop.

Is there a difference? that would depend on what you are talking about
Since you are defending Germans and claiming that Hitler wasn't that bad as Stalin was worse perhaps you should draw your distinctions more carefully

Yep defending Germans, and stating that Hitler wasn't as bad as Stalin, if we are to go by the numbers.
That's what i said. Distinctively drawn conclusion i'd say.
Remember, using Hitler and Germans in the same sentence in the context of this specific discussion is not optimal.

Which doesn't make the Nazis any better

No but it makes them not the only bad guys around in Hollywood movies and also in ww2. Far from it.

Still doesn't make Nazis anything other that lowlife scum.
Depicting lowlife scum as bad guys in a movie is perfectly acceptable.
Why are you uspet by it?

Well, could we depict maybe lowlife commy scum in a Hollywood movie and kill em all until the last 1 burns and save the day and earth from Communism?
Or aren't we allowed to call them that because you know, they were the 1 of the big 4?

[Feuer Frei!]

Well, ikalugin, i'm afraid that if you need the Nuremberg trials to decide for you the difference btw a German and nazi then i don't really know what else to say to you.

Revionist?
No revision there, of course you will defend your illutrious leader to the hilt, because most Russians to this day do so, saying that Stalin was 1 of the best leaders the country ever had.
Of course, because to deport so many ethnic groups to the gulags and concentration camps, he needed a lot of servants for that.
His fingers reach far and wide, even to this day there would be relatives of relatives that had relatives who did his genocidal bidding.

Seriously if you keep exhonerating him and saying he wasn't as bad as Hitler then i'm afraid the we have nothing left to discuss.
Especially since you don't want to see the truth and call it revisionism
Typical.

I don't have an issue with my heritage.
It seems you need to revise your countrie's history a bit more, especially that of your nobel piece price nominee.
If that doesn't give anyone a clue as to how farcical and fabricated and fantastical some of this allied ww2 saga is then i really don't know.

And this 90% thing, you can have that if you want. If it makes you sleep better at night.
Still doesn't change anything about Stalin or the things i told you to look up, which you conveniently call revionism.
Newsflash my friend, Russia in 1990, yes it took them that long, admitted guilt to Katyn massacre, after trying to pin it on the Nazis. Funny stuff really.
But of course we both know that Katyb was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.
We both know it, others know it.
Stalin knew it.

[ikalugin]

I'll make it stop.

So should or should we not stop this discussion?

If you do not wish to continue I won't force it and would exit the discussion as well. As such I give you the benefit of the doubt, counting two of your last posts as a single last statement.

[Jimbuna]

Seriously guys, wasn't this thread supposed to be about a new movie release???

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

So should or should we not stop this discussion?

If you do not wish to continue I won't force it and would exit the discussion as well. As such I give you the benefit of the doubt, counting two of your last posts as a single last statement.

No ill feelings to you of course, i hope you don't take this as a personal attack, rather a free-spirited discussion point in which we both have our points of view.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Polish people complaining about the reality of Polish history

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Why not look at the work of Instytut Pamięci Narodowej – Komisja Ścigania Zbrodni przeciwko Narodowi Polskiemu.
I don't know if you are familiar with it, its a Polish thing set up under Polish law by the Polish government.
Among other things it deals with Polish people participating in the holocaust.
It also deals with Poles murdering Jews for being Jews in the post war period.

I am, but you obviously aren't.

Your logic: in the only scene depicting Polish partisans, the Home Army tries to kill Jews and refrains from saving them. --> Poles are complaining --> they are complaining about 'the reality of Polish history' --> the reality of Polish history was about murdering Jews. (your initial post).

Now the funniest thing:
you are (ineptly) trying to say that the history of Poles murdering Jews (the reality of Polish history) is inside IPN documents...among other things.
Did you check these 'other things'? I doubt.

did you browse through all the materials of IPN or only those devoted to Poles murdering Jews?
Do these materials say anything about Poles saving Jews?
Do they say what was the general trend?
Let's suppose that Poles did both - murder Jews and save them and let's even suppose it was like 50% - 50%.
Why does the series not present Poles saving Jews?
You obviously have no frigging idea what the documents you mentioned are about.

Poland was the only country with capital punishment for hiding Jews. You didn't know about that.
There have been 24 811 titles of 'Righteous Among the Nations' - Poles got 26% of the titles given - which is the biggest representation among other nations.You didn't know that.
Sure there were a lot of exceptions like Jedwabne any a lot of other minor cases but there were exceptions to the rule that Poles were saving Jews. You didn't know that.

To sum up with: the documents you invoked do hold the truth about the reality of Polish history yet you haven't read them thus you have completely no idea what you are talking about.
Get your facts straight next time.

[ikalugin]

No ill feelings to you of course, i hope you don't take this as a personal attack, rather a free-spirited discussion point in which we both have our points of view.

My question still stands, especially considering the thread derailment aspect.

[MH]

Let me put it in simple way...Hitler generally speaking was better/more racional for his own people than Stalin yet worse to anyone else....at least at early on.
In particular considering his plans for the east.
Stalin to the Russian turned out to be savor as match as lunatic.
If not for his ruthless Russia could had lost the war with all the consequences... hence the split personality issue.

My grandfather born in Poland had spend some time in Siberian gulag , better deal than Auschwitz for sure....
Now what is this discussion about ...which one does not get his due respect?

Any sheep who has some mild interest in history knows more or less how things used to be.
Nothing beats the grand plans for the east with systematic slavery and elimination based on racial ideology.

Just watch some old action movies about commies..for the balance.