The Humming Bird U-boat

Der Teddy Bar · 03-20-06, 02:08 AM

There has been much discussion over how easily a WWII u-boat could achieve neutral buoyancy. Even when assuming it could be done all time the time, the fact is that it took time to achieve, and when you changed depth by say 10 metres, you would have to reconfigure the boat. The guys who did this were very good at it, but again, it still took time.

U-boats were actually never set for neutral buoyancy anyway, but to slightly positive buoyancy.

For the most part, a u-boat also never was just stationary for several reasons. A negative/positive buoyancy means that your sink/raise. But the main reason was control. With no forward motion you have virtually no control over your boat and can quite easily plummet out of control should a change is the water temperature or salinity occurs.

At periscope depth, the waves would easily bring your u-boat to the surface if you tried to hover like a humming bird.

The game play enhancement of not being able to just hover like a humming bird would be immense. Attacks would have to be planned to attain an attacking position instead of just rushing in, and â€˜hangingâ€™ around till the ships arrives.

CCIP · 03-20-06, 02:13 AM

I vote to make it neccesary to run the boat at a minimum speed (say, about 1kt) to keep it stable.

lafeeverted · 03-20-06, 02:28 AM

Humming birds are beautiful creatures - Uboots are not humming birds. No hovering please

Der Teddy Bar · 03-20-06, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

I vote to make it neccesary to run the boat at a minimum speed (say, about 1kt) to keep it stable.

How about 2?

CCIP · 03-20-06, 03:00 AM

I can live with 2. However, I had read (and I'll probably need to find that source again) that the slowest and most silent speed setting for U-boat electric engines is ~50rpm, which in SHIII equals about 1kt.

In either case, a slow sinking boat of any sort is better than a hoverboat.

JScones · 03-20-06, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

In either case, a slow sinking boat of any sort is better than a hoverboat.

VonHelsching · 03-20-06, 04:45 AM

IMHO, maintaining depth was one_of_those_minute_details that a u-boat captain didn't worry to fix them himself; So I vote to leave the humming bird alone.

I wouldn't like to forget this (minute detail) in the middle of the Atlantic with TC x256 while waiting for the mother_of_all_convoys and achieve crush depth in 1 minute of real time...

The Noob · 03-20-06, 05:56 AM

In real, no submarine commander has to worry about keeping the depth.The chief has to do that.So its useless to simulate, because you would never notice it. :hmm:

But, at 0 knots, if you "Hover" for a while, the boat sould fall slowly yes.

And you can not go "Fall" while on surface, because the boats ballast tanks are filled with air.And while attaking underwater, you have to be carefull.

Thats it.

donut · 03-20-06, 06:37 AM

When you use the(A) key to maintain depth,in real life, the dive officer,controls the depth.

We just modded it so the Captain didn't have to tuck every one in bed. Let the dive Officer do his job.Why, oh why,go out of your way, to create more instability and hoop jumps.for the Captain. Strighten out Kiel Canal so that anyone can use it,plotting it, is hoop enough! Sunken ships look cool, if they can be spotted by watch crew. Otherwise, just another hoop, to stub your toe on. This is a game,Enjoy. Plus, in German waters, dont you think Germans were smart enough to remove hazerdious aids to navagation.Let Boot hover,if it has comperssed air for dive Officer to use.

Real life;can't vote for this hoop.

CWorth · 03-20-06, 08:09 AM

I to will add my vote for NO HOVER...

Make it so you must mantain some motion to keeo stable.

Though I have a feeling there will be many more no hover voters than will be keep the hover voters.

Karl-Heinz Jaeger · 03-20-06, 08:32 AM

I gotta say NO HOVERING. I'm curious though, how do modern subs manage it? Anyone know?

ironkross · 03-20-06, 08:36 AM

So if you get the warning "Not enough crew in engine compartment" the next thing that happens is your boat starts sinking. What if this happens at 16X TC? Will you sink before you have time to make the adjustments? Oops! Gotta go. Just finished the GW DL.

irish1958 · 03-20-06, 09:24 AM

One Knot

The Noob · 03-20-06, 10:18 AM

AND, i have to add, deeper than a certain depth, the boat takes water, it was modeled in Command:Aces of the Deep!The depths were (With AoD crush depths it works so!)

IIA (Not modelled in AoD)

IIC (Not in SH3)

IID ~ 170
VIIB ~ 180
VIIC 190
IXB 170
IXC (and /40 variants) 180
IXD2 190
XXI I don't know (Never used it in Aces)

But not like flooding, ah hell everyone who played aces will sure know what i mean!!!!

And i'm think the boat should sink VVVVEEEEERRRRYYYYY slow, 2 preventing issues with time compression.

And ONLY if the boat is DIVED and STOPPED!!!!!COMPLETLY STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!

03-20-06, 11:53 AM

No hover no hover no hover no hover no hover no hover

View Poll Results: Would you want a u-boat that...
Does not Hover like a Humming Bird	32	52.46%
Humming Birds are a beautiful creature and you should leave them alone	29	47.54%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

03-20-06, 02:08 AM	#1
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The Humming Bird U-boat There has been much discussion over how easily a WWII u-boat could achieve neutral buoyancy. Even when assuming it could be done all time the time, the fact is that it took time to achieve, and when you changed depth by say 10 metres, you would have to reconfigure the boat. The guys who did this were very good at it, but again, it still took time. U-boats were actually never set for neutral buoyancy anyway, but to slightly positive buoyancy. For the most part, a u-boat also never was just stationary for several reasons. A negative/positive buoyancy means that your sink/raise. But the main reason was control. With no forward motion you have virtually no control over your boat and can quite easily plummet out of control should a change is the water temperature or salinity occurs. At periscope depth, the waves would easily bring your u-boat to the surface if you tried to hover like a humming bird. The game play enhancement of not being able to just hover like a humming bird would be immense. Attacks would have to be planned to attain an attacking position instead of just rushing in, and â€˜hangingâ€™ around till the ships arrives.

03-20-06, 02:13 AM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I vote to make it neccesary to run the boat at a minimum speed (say, about 1kt) to keep it stable. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-20-06, 03:00 AM	#5
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I can live with 2. However, I had read (and I'll probably need to find that source again) that the slowest and most silent speed setting for U-boat electric engines is ~50rpm, which in SHIII equals about 1kt. In either case, a slow sinking boat of any sort is better than a hoverboat. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-20-06, 08:32 AM	#11
Karl-Heinz Jaeger Planesman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 188 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I gotta say NO HOVERING. I'm curious though, how do modern subs manage it? Anyone know? __________________ Clear Skies and Good Hunting!! Regards, Kptn.Lt. Karl-Heinz Jaeger SHIII Commander Henry Hunter SHIV

03-20-06, 02:28 AM	#3
lafeeverted Chief Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 329 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Humming birds are beautiful creatures - Uboots are not humming birds. No hovering please

03-20-06, 04:45 AM	#7
VonHelsching Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,025 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	IMHO, maintaining depth was one_of_those_minute_details that a u-boat captain didn't worry to fix them himself; So I vote to leave the humming bird alone. I wouldn't like to forget this (minute detail) in the middle of the Atlantic with TC x256 while waiting for the mother_of_all_convoys and achieve crush depth in 1 minute of real time...

03-20-06, 05:56 AM	#8
The Noob The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: de_dust2 Posts: 1,417 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In real, no submarine commander has to worry about keeping the depth.The chief has to do that.So its useless to simulate, because you would never notice it. :hmm: But, at 0 knots, if you "Hover" for a while, the boat sould fall slowly yes. And you can not go "Fall" while on surface, because the boats ballast tanks are filled with air.And while attaking underwater, you have to be carefull. Thats it.

03-20-06, 06:37 AM	#9
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	When you use the(A) key to maintain depth,in real life, the dive officer,controls the depth. We just modded it so the Captain didn't have to tuck every one in bed. Let the dive Officer do his job.Why, oh why,go out of your way, to create more instability and hoop jumps.for the Captain. Strighten out Kiel Canal so that anyone can use it,plotting it, is hoop enough! Sunken ships look cool, if they can be spotted by watch crew. Otherwise, just another hoop, to stub your toe on. This is a game,Enjoy. Plus, in German waters, dont you think Germans were smart enough to remove hazerdious aids to navagation.Let Boot hover,if it has comperssed air for dive Officer to use. Real life;can't vote for this hoop.

03-20-06, 08:09 AM	#10
CWorth Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gettysburg PA Posts: 845 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I to will add my vote for NO HOVER... Make it so you must mantain some motion to keeo stable. Though I have a feeling there will be many more no hover voters than will be keep the hover voters.

03-20-06, 08:36 AM	#12
ironkross Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seneca, SC, USA Posts: 251 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	So if you get the warning "Not enough crew in engine compartment" the next thing that happens is your boat starts sinking. What if this happens at 16X TC? Will you sink before you have time to make the adjustments? Oops! Gotta go. Just finished the GW DL. __________________ If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

03-20-06, 09:24 AM	#13
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	sinking One Knot

03-20-06, 10:18 AM	#14
The Noob The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: de_dust2 Posts: 1,417 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	AND, i have to add, deeper than a certain depth, the boat takes water, it was modeled in Command:Aces of the Deep!The depths were (With AoD crush depths it works so!) IIA (Not modelled in AoD) IIC (Not in SH3) IID ~ 170 VIIB ~ 180 VIIC 190 IXB 170 IXC (and /40 variants) 180 IXD2 190 XXI I don't know (Never used it in Aces) But not like flooding, ah hell everyone who played aces will sure know what i mean!!!! And i'm think the boat should sink VVVVEEEEERRRRYYYYY slow, 2 preventing issues with time compression. And ONLY if the boat is DIVED and STOPPED!!!!!COMPLETLY STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!

03-20-06, 11:53 AM	#15
Sailor Steve Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	No hover no hover no hover no hover no hover no hover