If it's Stupid but it Works, Is it still stupid?

Kaptlt.Endrass · 06-05-14, 07:13 PM

Honestly not the smartest thing Ive ever done in GWX/SH3.

Started a seperate career not too long ago. Today, found a weakly escorted convoy ( two armmed trawlers and a Hunt I) and attacked as any kaluen would. The Hunt DD retaliated to my sinking a modern tanker and coastal merchant by ramming me, causing heavy flooding that I had to surface to stop. So as soon as he left, I surfaced and neutralized (not destroyed) the lingering trawler with the flak and deck gun.

Soon after, our good friend the Hunt I reappeared, so I thought 'To hell with it' and started to exchange fire. Despite some nasty hits (one man was later buried at sea), we managed to sink him and the rest of the merchants.

Which brings us back to the title; Is it stupid if it works?

jakethescot · 06-05-14, 08:34 PM

If it were real life; stupid. Since it's a game and you can easily restart; no big deal.

Sailor Steve · 06-05-14, 11:58 PM

In real life one shell from a destroyer can possibly penetrate your pressure hull. After that you can no longer dive at all, and you are now a slow torpedo boat designed to sink whereas every ship you meet is designed to float.

As he said, if you just want to play the game nothing is really stupid, since you can't really die. If you play DiD then you might want to be more careful.

Pisces · 06-06-14, 10:53 AM

I think it would be stupid to use the deckgun and flak. If you must surface to escape sinking, then you must. But try to leave it at escaping, and not show them where you are. If there is any chance that the trawlers and the destroyer is in the fog of war, un aware of you when you surface, then leave them there. And go home licking your wounds.

But if they clearly know where you are, then I suppose it's a question of sinking, or likely sinking. Not much to loose. Your description doesn't exactly tell which situation applies at the moment you surface.

maillemaker · 06-06-14, 02:53 PM

In stock SH3, I would routinely win gun battles with escorts. I can hit them far more consistently then they could hit me.

With GWX, forget it. Once, in desperation, I engaged in a gun battle with an ASW trawler in shallow water. I won, but it was straight back to port for repairs after that.

Steve

Kaptlt.Endrass · 06-06-14, 05:56 PM

For the trawler, I simply shot off his cannon and MG, then the destroyer passed right in front of me, allowing me to shoot his DC racks and rear cannonade, then screw up his engine. I might add that I was taking constant evasion and manually firing.

I was within detection range of the trawler, but the destroyer heard and wanted to join in, before repairs were complete. Despite that being my first contact, I did return to Wilemshaven with 37% integrity.

Schöneboom · 06-06-14, 07:09 PM

On my last patrol I got lucky in a gunfight with an armed freighter. I had just torpedoed her, but she wasn't sinking fast. The sea state was so rough that the freighter's deck gun, firing off to port, missed me every time. With my bow pointed at the ship's port side, my deck gunners scored plenty of hits (range, over 1000 m), timing the shots just right with the rise & fall of the barrel.

Eventually the enemy's aim improved, and I dived before they could hit. The freighter finally sank. I wouldn't recommend this as a regular tactic; the circumstances were just esp. good this time.

Sailor Steve · 06-06-14, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaptlt.Endrass

For the trawler, I simply shot off his cannon and MG, then the destroyer passed right in front of me, allowing me to shoot his DC racks and rear cannonade, then screw up his engine.

There have been players who explained exactly how to kill a corvette: Surface behind him where his single gun can't hit you. I know of one u-boat that actually tried that. The corvette's 40mm AA gun killed the entire deck gun crew in just a few seconds. The u-boat surrendered.

Quote:

I might add that I was taking constant evasion and manually firing.

A destroyer with at least three guns and actual fire control vs a u-boat with one gun and no fire control. It's simple - the game cheats, and in the player's favor.

I know it's just a game, and I used to play that way with SH1, but these days I have to treat it like it's real or it just isn't fun anymore. This is probably why I sometimes come home with zero tonnage.

Kaptlt.Endrass · 06-07-14, 01:04 AM

Copy on the realism, Steve.

Just tired of failed 1943 attempts that I wanted to spice it up, per se, in another career.

Although my shiny new Type XXI should help with that.

Sailor Steve · 06-07-14, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaptlt.Endrass

Copy on the realism, Steve.

Let me just say here that while I play as realistically (by my lights) as I can, I don't believe everybody (or anybody) else should. It's just that we've had periods of time in which we were assailed by players bragging about how many millions of tons they sank. They got questioned on the level they were playing at etc. I always like to point out that in Sid Meier's Pirates I turned the entire Spanish Main into the English main...on Level 3. On Level 4 I never survived more than a week.

Quote:

Just tired of failed 1943 attempts that I wanted to spice it up, per se, in another career.

You have to play the way that suits you, or else what's the point? The way that suits me is to pretend I'm really there, and my crew's lives depend on every decision I make. But I try not to forget that I've been playing subsims since Silent Service 1, which was 1985.

Jimbuna · 06-07-14, 07:54 AM

Play the way you get the most enjoyment from. One mans meat is sometimes another mans poison.

Kaptlt.Endrass · 06-07-14, 11:03 AM

Jahwol, Herr Kaluen.

Back to 89% realism.

Sailor Steve · 06-07-14, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

One mans meat is sometimes another mans poison.

-Anonymous

"One man's theology is another man's belly-laugh."
-Robert A. Heinlein.

"One gamer's must-have mod is another gamer's waste of time."
-Sailor Steve

maillemaker · 06-09-14, 10:02 AM

After screwing up a convoy approach a couple of nights ago, where I mag-shot 3 Black Swans but they did not sink - they take a hit and run back into convoy formation after getting damaged - it was dark so I blew ballast and shot to the surface, manned the guns, and was able to take down the wounded Black Swan from about 3400 m. I hit them several times to sink and they never hit me back.

Guess I'm better with the gun in GWX than I thought.

Don't think I'd try this during the day though.

Steve

06-05-14, 07:13 PM	#1
Kaptlt.Endrass Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: No Longer On A Big Grey Floaty Thing Posts: 395 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	If it's Stupid but it Works, Is it still stupid? Honestly not the smartest thing Ive ever done in GWX/SH3. Started a seperate career not too long ago. Today, found a weakly escorted convoy ( two armmed trawlers and a Hunt I) and attacked as any kaluen would. The Hunt DD retaliated to my sinking a modern tanker and coastal merchant by ramming me, causing heavy flooding that I had to surface to stop. So as soon as he left, I surfaced and neutralized (not destroyed) the lingering trawler with the flak and deck gun. Soon after, our good friend the Hunt I reappeared, so I thought 'To hell with it' and started to exchange fire. Despite some nasty hits (one man was later buried at sea), we managed to sink him and the rest of the merchants. Which brings us back to the title; Is it stupid if it works? __________________ "That flag and I are twins, born in the same hour from the same womb of destiny. We cannot be parted in life or in death; so long as we float, we shall float together." As much as I dislike it sometimes, I'm a tin can sailor, through and through.

06-05-14, 08:34 PM	#2
jakethescot Engineer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fulton Missouri Posts: 205 Downloads: 904 Uploads: 0	If it were real life; stupid. Since it's a game and you can easily restart; no big deal. __________________ COYW !!!

06-05-14, 11:58 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	In real life one shell from a destroyer can possibly penetrate your pressure hull. After that you can no longer dive at all, and you are now a slow torpedo boat designed to sink whereas every ship you meet is designed to float. As he said, if you just want to play the game nothing is really stupid, since you can't really die. If you play DiD then you might want to be more careful. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

06-06-14, 05:56 PM	#6
Kaptlt.Endrass Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: No Longer On A Big Grey Floaty Thing Posts: 395 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	For the trawler, I simply shot off his cannon and MG, then the destroyer passed right in front of me, allowing me to shoot his DC racks and rear cannonade, then screw up his engine. I might add that I was taking constant evasion and manually firing. I was within detection range of the trawler, but the destroyer heard and wanted to join in, before repairs were complete. Despite that being my first contact, I did return to Wilemshaven with 37% integrity. __________________ "That flag and I are twins, born in the same hour from the same womb of destiny. We cannot be parted in life or in death; so long as we float, we shall float together." As much as I dislike it sometimes, I'm a tin can sailor, through and through.

06-06-14, 07:09 PM	#7
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	On my last patrol I got lucky in a gunfight with an armed freighter. I had just torpedoed her, but she wasn't sinking fast. The sea state was so rough that the freighter's deck gun, firing off to port, missed me every time. With my bow pointed at the ship's port side, my deck gunners scored plenty of hits (range, over 1000 m), timing the shots just right with the rise & fall of the barrel. Eventually the enemy's aim improved, and I dived before they could hit. The freighter finally sank. I wouldn't recommend this as a regular tactic; the circumstances were just esp. good this time. __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher." Last edited by Schöneboom; 06-06-14 at 07:12 PM. Reason: detail

06-06-14, 10:53 AM	#4
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	I think it would be stupid to use the deckgun and flak. If you must surface to escape sinking, then you must. But try to leave it at escaping, and not show them where you are. If there is any chance that the trawlers and the destroyer is in the fog of war, un aware of you when you surface, then leave them there. And go home licking your wounds. But if they clearly know where you are, then I suppose it's a question of sinking, or likely sinking. Not much to loose. Your description doesn't exactly tell which situation applies at the moment you surface.

06-06-14, 02:53 PM	#5
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	In stock SH3, I would routinely win gun battles with escorts. I can hit them far more consistently then they could hit me. With GWX, forget it. Once, in desperation, I engaged in a gun battle with an ASW trawler in shallow water. I won, but it was straight back to port for repairs after that. Steve

06-07-14, 01:04 AM	#9
Kaptlt.Endrass Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: No Longer On A Big Grey Floaty Thing Posts: 395 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	Copy on the realism, Steve. Just tired of failed 1943 attempts that I wanted to spice it up, per se, in another career. Although my shiny new Type XXI should help with that. __________________ "That flag and I are twins, born in the same hour from the same womb of destiny. We cannot be parted in life or in death; so long as we float, we shall float together." As much as I dislike it sometimes, I'm a tin can sailor, through and through.

06-07-14, 07:54 AM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Play the way you get the most enjoyment from. One mans meat is sometimes another mans poison. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

06-07-14, 11:03 AM	#12
Kaptlt.Endrass Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: No Longer On A Big Grey Floaty Thing Posts: 395 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	Jahwol, Herr Kaluen. Back to 89% realism. __________________ "That flag and I are twins, born in the same hour from the same womb of destiny. We cannot be parted in life or in death; so long as we float, we shall float together." As much as I dislike it sometimes, I'm a tin can sailor, through and through.

06-09-14, 10:02 AM	#14
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	After screwing up a convoy approach a couple of nights ago, where I mag-shot 3 Black Swans but they did not sink - they take a hit and run back into convoy formation after getting damaged - it was dark so I blew ballast and shot to the surface, manned the guns, and was able to take down the wounded Black Swan from about 3400 m. I hit them several times to sink and they never hit me back. Guess I'm better with the gun in GWX than I thought. Don't think I'd try this during the day though. Steve