So we laugh at them

[Friscobay]

[QUOTE=swamprat69er;2191373]I'm with Armistead and mapac on this one.
I don't shove my views and religion down your throat and you will not shove it down mine.
We've got a guy at work that is a 'little out there', he firmly believes a whole lot of stuff, but he tries to peddle it to everybody else..



Mates, all of ye SUBSIMMERS, can we at least agree that the food is still lousier at sea than on the beach?


The dreck of religion and politics which sunders and divides us. Rather, meat, and ale, and a warm bed, a sounding foghorn and a beacon to guide, a deck to stand upon, truth to your mates, and perdition to your foes. Jingle in pockets and the lights of the tavern, a place to call home.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

From some point on, we must take a knowledge as granted.

And, believe it or not, I do. I don't deny there may be life on other planets. I also don't deny that there may be a God. In both cases I say "Based on what evidence?"

The case for life on other planets is based on the fact that we have life here, and the conditions we consider vital for life to exist seem to be replicated elsewhere in the universe. For me there is a difference between saying "I don't see why life shouldn't exist elsewhere" and saying "I believe life exists elsewhere". I certainly accept the possibility, because to deny it would be silly. That said, I don't "believe" it, and will continue to not actively believe it until I see some actual proof.

As for the existence of God? There is no evidence at all that I have seen. I still don't deny the possibility, but only because I don't know that He/She/It doesn't exist either.

I accept that anything is possible. I admit that some things are statistically more likely than others. I won't believe anything until I see it.

[BrucePartington]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And, believe it or not, I do. I don't deny there may be life on other planets. I also don't deny that there may be a God. In both cases I say "Based on what evidence?"

The case for life on other planets is based on the fact that we have life here, and the conditions we consider vital for life to exist seem to be replicated elsewhere in the universe. For me there is a difference between saying "I don't see why life shouldn't exist elsewhere" and saying "I believe life exists elsewhere". I certainly accept the possibility, because to deny it would be silly. That said, I don't "believe" it, and will continue to not actively believe it until I see some actual proof.

As for the existence of God? There is no evidence at all that I have seen. I still don't deny the possibility, but only because I don't know that He/She/It doesn't exist either.

I accept that anything is possible. I admit that some things are statistically more likely than others. I won't believe anything until I see it.

Exactly my view
An example of a scientific mind. Not to say the scientific mind is "flawlessly" rational. As human beings we all have blind spots. And we all need each other to make up for those.

I also do not exclude the possibility this universe might have been "created" as opposed to burst into existence from a singularity incredibly dense.
We just don't know, yet.
Religion calls such a creator a God, or Allah, etc. I imagine such entity somewhat differently, like a scientist, in another dimension / universe, who created a universe in his laboratory. Not necessarily someone I should worship, bow to, and fear.
I've had this view for some years now, and then Prof. Alan Guth said: "...it's actually safe to create a universe in your basement..." at 43 mnts into this BBC Horizon documentary:


In principle I accept any possibility. What I have difficulty with is dogma, and arguments from ignorance. They lead away from knowledge, and I like knowledge very much.

Now, addressing the OP regarding the notion of "hell", here's a funny moment from the AE broadcast :

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

A person believe in UFOs and alien and many people mock or laugh at this person. What I personally can't understand, is that many of these people, go to church and believe all about Hell. For me it is the same.

I do not believe in UFOs coming from other planets, however i do not think we are the only life forms in the universe. It is just so that the window of contact as Lem described it, is much too small.

I have much more problems in believing in heaven and hell. The bible is a partially wrong 'historical' script, i wonder how one can build a religion with a failing ground personnel (pope and entourage), around this. It was certainly a 'nice' intrument to keep people down and dumb. After all it was all about power.
Same with Quran or the jewish, of course. I find the bhuddistic religion to be the least intrusive and aggressive one. But to believe in it ?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I accept that anything is possible. I admit that some things are statistically more likely than others. I won't believe anything until I see it.

That's what bothers me about religion, if you use the "wait and see" approach you'll end up being tortured for eternity by their loving God. Simply, you have to toss out logic and reason and use blind faith. To me that's obvious the approach to control humans with utter fear. Certainly religion worked to control the uneducated masses and progress humanity in the dark and early ages, but you think we could step beyond that.

I love my beautiful first daughter but her and her husband have become very fundy and religious. I don't argue with her because I don't see it my place to harm her beliefs, but I'm concerned for my 4 granddaughters that are being so indoctrinated in home and church. I would rather her to teach them to start thinking for themselves.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Armistead

That's what bothers me about religion, if you use the "wait and see" approach you'll end up being tortured for eternity by their loving God.

Well that's what 'they' say isn't it. The first step to getting by that is, as you probably already know is to find out how they arrived at that conclusion. Turns out that it's not very conclusive. Personally I think that if there is a God, he would have no problem with the "wait and see" approach. If there is a God and he is any thing like what we may suspect, he is highly logical and uses reason. Seems to me that he would expect us to start acting in the same manner.

Certainly religion worked to control the uneducated masses and progress humanity in the dark and early ages, but you think we could step beyond that.

You would hope so wouldn't you.

I love my beautiful first daughter but her and her husband have become very fundy and religious.

I would rather her to teach them to start thinking for themselves.

You may have to be patient here and try to get some input when you can. I'm in a similar situation. My only Grandchild, 14 years old has been going to youth group and church, mostly through influence of friends he met at camp. I know exactly what he is being taught, but don't want to discourage him. There are a lot worse things he could be involve in and he is at an age when a whole world of problems is approaching.

Lots of people come around in their thinking. It just takes time and patience and being a good example. Good luck with your situation.

[Wolferz]

Someone once said; "Suffer not the little children to come unto me."

I let my kids discover religion on their own. Unlike my parents who forced it on us. Since then I have researched much of the history of Christianity and found it somewhat lacking in its fundamental tenets. Too many of the organized religions waste their time and mine, pushing their doctrine, when they should be teaching the Christian attitude.
I read a story the other day about a Christian school in Virginia that encouraged (more like pressured strongly) an eight year old tomboy student to transfer. Thinking the worst of a child is not what I would call a Christian attitude but, I won't judge them. Hypocrites?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Someone once said; "Suffer not the little children to come unto me."

Actually it was the opposite.

"Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, 'Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.'
And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence."
-Matthew 19:13-15

But your point:

Thinking the worst of a child is not what I would call a Christian attitude but, I won't judge them. Hypocrites?

is the very point of the story itself.

[Wolferz]

They are us!

Here's a prime example of Christians overstepping their bounds and arbitrarily deciding what's best for everyone...
http://t.money.msn.com/business-news...01&id=17486923

I seriously think they could find much better things to do with all that Wall Street money.

16th century thinking is a hard habit to break.