Beginner Questions - Page 3

banryu79 · 03-24-14, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukesub

How far under the keel do magnetic torps have to be? Is 1 meter below too far?

It depends. Mainly by the weather, 'cause with heavy sea your target will roll and pitch more, and its keel depth will change constanly by a large amount.

So, it could be that your mag torpedo will run well under your target keel at the intersect point... All in all with very bad sea/weather it is safer to opt. for impact and forget magnetic at all.

In any case my rule of thumb is (W stand for Wind):
W < 7 = 0.5 meter under the keel
7 < W > 12 = 1 meter under the keel
W > 12 = 2 meters if you feel lucky, or forget it at all.

BigWalleye · 03-24-14, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banryu79

It depends. Mainly by the weather, 'cause with heavy sea your target will roll and pitch more, and its keel depth will change constanly by a large amount.

So, it could be that your mag torpedo will run well under your target keel at the intersect point... All in all with very bad sea/weather it is safer to opt. for impact and forget magnetic at all.

In any case my rule of thumb is (W stand for Wind):
W < 7 = 0.5 meter under the keel
7 < W > 12 = 1 meter under the keel
W > 12 = 2 meters if you feel lucky, or forget it at all.

If you are using h.sie's V16B1 patches, the Torpedo Failure Fix will cause your torps to run at max depth (25m) if torp depth setting <= 0.4 W. So using a shallow setting with the impact pistol won't alleviate the problem in heavy weather. Better to use magnetic in high winds. I can't say for sure, but I really doubt that keel depth changes due to sea state are modeled in SH3. I'd bet that 6m draft means 6m, period.

Aras · 03-24-14, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

If you are using h.sie's V16B1 patches, the Torpedo Failure Fix will cause your torps to run at max depth (25m) if torp depth setting <= 0.4 W. So using a shallow setting with the impact pistol won't alleviate the problem in heavy weather. Better to use magnetic in high winds.

I agree, however the problem is Magnetic Pistols are known to have pre detonation problems in heavy weather / rough seas. Better fire them on short range (<= 1000m)

Mittelwaechter · 03-24-14, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukesub

Hmmm, tried this. Nothing happens however, not even a "WE:" in the dialog box. Oh well, can't say we didn't try!

I assure you this little mod works perfectly.

Did you roll back the SH3 Commander before modifying the files?
Maybe you run some mod in JSGME that uses it's own menu/command files?

Torpedo ranges are easy:
G7a (T1/FAT/LUT) has a speed setting. Slow30kts/medium40kts/fast44kts goes 12.5/7.5/5 km.

Electric eels (TII/TIII/FAT/LUT) have only one speed - 30kts and go ~ 5 km (GWX).
In Stock SH3 there was a difference in range between TII and TIII versions. You can redo and use this to simulate preheating conditions.

The homing torpedos are different:
Falke 20kts - 7.5km
Zaunkoenig 24kts - 5.7 km

The keel is dancing up and down. With H.Sie's patch it may be impossible to hit your target with impact fuse in high seas.
If you have to use a magnetic, it is a good idea to shoot along the keel line - from the back. It doubles (at least) your chances to ignite the fuse as the keel may come down into the correct distance or the eel hits the stern section directly (if the keel is down right then and the torpedo doesn't bounce off).

Jimbuna · 03-24-14, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

I can't say for sure, but I really doubt that keel depth changes due to sea state are modeled in SH3. I'd bet that 6m draft means 6m, period.

Use external camera view in rough weather and look at the different depths the keel goes through as the ship pitches.

BigWalleye · 03-24-14, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Use external camera view in rough weather and look at the different depths the keel goes through as the ship pitches.

I'm afraid that up-and-down motion of the image doesn't tell me anything about the modeling of the hull-torpedo interaction. Have you actually seen a magnetic run under a hull in heavy weather? IMO, direct visual observation of a torp running straight and true (with no porpoising to track the surface wave action) and the target hull moving up out of the detonation zone would be the only positive confirmation. I never use an external cam, so I've never looked for it it.

Mittelwaechter · 03-24-14, 11:54 AM

^^

It works exactly like that.

And you can observe the perfect set mag-torpedo bouncing off, with the hull dunking deep.

BigWalleye · 03-24-14, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

^^

It works exactly like that.

And you can observe the perfect set mag-torpedo bouncing off, with the hull dunking deep.

Doesn't the hull proximity cause detonation as the torp approaches the side of the hull when it is running above keel depth? Also, I thought the choices were "Impact Only" and "Impact + Magnetic". If so, then a shallow runner shouldn't bounce off, but should detonate when it smacks the side. Shouldn't it? Is it even possible to set the Pistol to "Magnetic Only"? No GUI I use shows that option.

Jimbuna · 03-24-14, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

I'm afraid that up-and-down motion of the image doesn't tell me anything about the modeling of the hull-torpedo interaction. Have you actually seen a magnetic run under a hull in heavy weather? IMO, direct visual observation of a torp running straight and true (with no porpoising to track the surface wave action) and the target hull moving up out of the detonation zone would be the only positive confirmation. I never use an external cam, so I've never looked for it it.

Fair enough but I've seen many an eel porpoising as well as striking the side of the hull as the vessel pitches into the sea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

^^

It works exactly like that.

And you can observe the perfect set mag-torpedo bouncing off, with the hull dunking deep.

Rgr that.

BigWalleye · 03-24-14, 01:03 PM

OK, I'm convinced.

What about the pistol switch? Impact vs Magnetic? Or Impact vs Impact + Magnetic. The original Ubimanual says the latter. But GWX and NYGM don't. Was gibt?

BigWalleye · 03-24-14, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG

Exactly! Never mess that up in range of the enemy...

Silent Service I says it this way: Mister Jimbuna is being re-assigned for training

Anyone remember that game?

'Course! It was the first, but it couldn't touch the original (and still great) Silent Hunter!

Mittelwaechter · 03-24-14, 03:59 PM

The impact pistol was a mechanical device senitive to a direct push from the gear at the tip of the torpedo. If this push wasn't hard enough the pistol didn't ignite the payload and the torpedo bounced off.

The magnetic pistol was/is an electrical device (on by default) and easily to be switched off (disconnect a cable). It was/is sensitive to the change of the earths magnetic field - altered under a ships keel as by i.e. ore veins in the sea bed or by leaving the tube. The last fact made them arm the torpedo after a certain distance from the tube.

ReallyDedPoet · 03-24-14, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG

If that is not an addiction, tell me what it is

Fast Attack was my first subsim, SHII brought me here though

BigWalleye · 03-24-14, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG

I just went downstairs and had a look into my shelf - and yes! I still own that original box of a 1985-Silent-Service-C64 !!!

Man, I am addicted to playing Subsims since almost 30 years now!

If that is not an addiction, tell me what it is

My copy (on a mini-flop IIRC) got tossed with my PCAT long, long ago!

flag4 · 03-25-14, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukesub

5). Any advice on manual targeting? I have been using this video as a reference to learn:

...what a crackin' vid, many thanks Nukesub

03-24-14, 11:54 AM	#37
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	^^ It works exactly like that. And you can observe the perfect set mag-torpedo bouncing off, with the hull dunking deep. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-24-14, 03:59 PM	#42
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	The impact pistol was a mechanical device senitive to a direct push from the gear at the tip of the torpedo. If this push wasn't hard enough the pistol didn't ignite the payload and the torpedo bounced off. The magnetic pistol was/is an electrical device (on by default) and easily to be switched off (disconnect a cable). It was/is sensitive to the change of the earths magnetic field - altered under a ships keel as by i.e. ore veins in the sea bed or by leaving the tube. The last fact made them arm the torpedo after a certain distance from the tube. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-24-14, 01:03 PM	#40
BigWalleye Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: On the Eye-lond, mon! Posts: 1,987 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	OK, I'm convinced. What about the pistol switch? Impact vs Magnetic? Or Impact vs Impact + Magnetic. The original Ubimanual says the latter. But GWX and NYGM don't. Was gibt?