Kafka, and the NSA

Catfish · 01-26-14, 12:48 PM

John W. Whitehead, President of the Rutherford Institute :
The new America

Found this paragraph very fitting:

About Kafka's book:

"One of Kafka’s most famous novels, The Trial, tells the story of Josef K., an ordinary middle manager who one morning awakes to find himself accused of a terrible crime – a crime which is too awful for his accusers to speak of."

Whitehead:

"Josef K’s plight, one of bureaucratic lunacy and an inability to discover the identity of his accusers, is increasingly an American reality. We now live in a society in which a person can be accused of any number of crimes without knowing what exactly he has done. He might be apprehended in the middle of the night by a roving band of SWAT police. He might find himself on a no-fly list, unable to travel for reasons undisclosed. He might have his phones or internet tapped based upon a secret order handed down by a secret court, with no recourse to discover why he was targeted. Indeed, this is Kafka’s nightmare, and it is slowly becoming America’s reality."

Of course, total surveillance is not possible to a 100 percent, and there are also - of course - advantages when it comes looking for criminals. However, who will be a "criminal", and who decides who qualifies ?

You can now be accused of anything, and they do not even have to prove it. You are suspicious for whatever reason, a combination of having bought the "wrong" car, few money on your bank account and not have been in a pub for more than four weeks. You being suspicious is the product of some automatic number-crunching algorithms connecting the dots they have about you.
It is the same with gun control, if only the secret service and the government has those means of surveillance, you are virtually helpless. Others and your (former) friends will think if he is being accused, there must be something (no smoke without fire blahblah)

Also very precise, and from 2003:

Society, Ethics, and Technology
By Morton Winston, Ralph Edelbach

"[...] we will find ourselves being tracked, analyzed, profiled, and flagged in our daily lives to a degree we can scarcely imagine today.

We will be forced into an impossible struggle to conform to the letter of every rule, law, and guideline, lest we create ammunition for enemies in the government or elsewhere. Our transgressions will become permanent Scarlet Letters that follow us throughout our lives, visible to all and used by the government, landlords, employers, insurance companies and other powerful parties to increase their leverage over average people.

Americans will not be able to engage in political protest or go about their daily lives without the constant awareness that we are - or could be - under surveillance. We will be forced to constantly ask of even the smallest action taken in public, "Will this make me look suspicious?

Will this hurt my chances for future employment? Will this reduce my ability to get insurance?" The exercise of free speech will be chilled as Americans become conscious that their every word may be reported to the government by FBI infiltrators, suspicious fellow citizens or an Internet Service Provider. [...]

This is about the NSA, but it is certainly true for all nations now, or in the near future.

Ok, a problem that cannot be solved stops being a problem.
But are we really going to take this, and do nothing about it.

This living in fear of doing anything suspicious that might trigger getting you in trouble in any respect, from employment to getting a credit to a no-fly situation to whatever imaginable, is not what i would like for my kids to see, or live under.

Greetings,
Catfish

Aktungbby · 01-26-14, 06:07 PM

How Kafkaesque! gimme that ol' time "Nacht und Nebel" any day.

vienna · 01-26-14, 06:33 PM

I always thought that Kafka was an optimist...

<O>

Wolferz · 01-27-14, 11:43 AM

Kafka or deKafka?

You look a little nervous so you better go with deKafka.

MH · 01-27-14, 11:50 AM

I thought that NSA was about accusing people of things they actually did but legally are not supposed to be accused of while snooping in the lives of everyone.

Aktungbby · 01-27-14, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

I always thought that Kafka was an optimist...<O>

Any one who gets up in the morning and thinks is an optimist!

Catfish · 01-27-14, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

I thought that NSA was about accusing people of things they actually did but legally are not supposed to be accused of while snooping in the lives of everyone.

They are not accused of accusing People who do deserve it, they are accused for accusing and killing People who don't. Read: collateral damage, cynically killing more civilian innocent bystanders than those 'targeted'.
I think you would still be proud of technolgy and freedom if a drone kills your Kids and wife, while wiping out one drug Boss, or someone from an organisation being named by a CIA database.
They just have a hard-on playing god.

Snooping in the lives of everyone can and thus WILL be used, just take the time and read the first post.

vienna · 01-28-14, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Any one who gets up in the morning and thinks is an optimist!

You think so? You will, please, kindly step into this side room for a small "conversation" yes?...

<O>

01-26-14, 12:48 PM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Kafka, and the NSA John W. Whitehead, President of the Rutherford Institute : The new America Found this paragraph very fitting: About Kafka's book: "One of Kafka’s most famous novels, The Trial, tells the story of Josef K., an ordinary middle manager who one morning awakes to find himself accused of a terrible crime – a crime which is too awful for his accusers to speak of." Whitehead: "Josef K’s plight, one of bureaucratic lunacy and an inability to discover the identity of his accusers, is increasingly an American reality. We now live in a society in which a person can be accused of any number of crimes without knowing what exactly he has done. He might be apprehended in the middle of the night by a roving band of SWAT police. He might find himself on a no-fly list, unable to travel for reasons undisclosed. He might have his phones or internet tapped based upon a secret order handed down by a secret court, with no recourse to discover why he was targeted. Indeed, this is Kafka’s nightmare, and it is slowly becoming America’s reality." Of course, total surveillance is not possible to a 100 percent, and there are also - of course - advantages when it comes looking for criminals. However, who will be a "criminal", and who decides who qualifies ? You can now be accused of anything, and they do not even have to prove it. You are suspicious for whatever reason, a combination of having bought the "wrong" car, few money on your bank account and not have been in a pub for more than four weeks. You being suspicious is the product of some automatic number-crunching algorithms connecting the dots they have about you. It is the same with gun control, if only the secret service and the government has those means of surveillance, you are virtually helpless. Others and your (former) friends will think if he is being accused, there must be something (no smoke without fire blahblah) Also very precise, and from 2003: Society, Ethics, and Technology By Morton Winston, Ralph Edelbach "[...] we will find ourselves being tracked, analyzed, profiled, and flagged in our daily lives to a degree we can scarcely imagine today. We will be forced into an impossible struggle to conform to the letter of every rule, law, and guideline, lest we create ammunition for enemies in the government or elsewhere. Our transgressions will become permanent Scarlet Letters that follow us throughout our lives, visible to all and used by the government, landlords, employers, insurance companies and other powerful parties to increase their leverage over average people. Americans will not be able to engage in political protest or go about their daily lives without the constant awareness that we are - or could be - under surveillance. We will be forced to constantly ask of even the smallest action taken in public, "Will this make me look suspicious? Will this hurt my chances for future employment? Will this reduce my ability to get insurance?" The exercise of free speech will be chilled as Americans become conscious that their every word may be reported to the government by FBI infiltrators, suspicious fellow citizens or an Internet Service Provider. [...] This is about the NSA, but it is certainly true for all nations now, or in the near future. Ok, a problem that cannot be solved stops being a problem. But are we really going to take this, and do nothing about it. This living in fear of doing anything suspicious that might trigger getting you in trouble in any respect, from employment to getting a credit to a no-fly situation to whatever imaginable, is not what i would like for my kids to see, or live under. Greetings, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 01-26-14 at 01:08 PM.

01-26-14, 06:07 PM	#2
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,006 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	How Kafkaesque! gimme that ol' time "Nacht und Nebel" any day. __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!! Last edited by Aktungbby; 01-27-14 at 01:13 PM.

01-26-14, 06:33 PM	#3
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I always thought that Kafka was an optimist... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

01-27-14, 11:43 AM	#4
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Kafka or deKafka? You look a little nervous so you better go with deKafka. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

01-27-14, 11:50 AM	#5
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	I thought that NSA was about accusing people of things they actually did but legally are not supposed to be accused of while snooping in the lives of everyone.