Work in Progress-Thermal layers...RELEASED

[JScones]

Good use of the Random folders Hemisent!

Curiously though, why are the folders dated 19391201, and not 19390901? It means there are no thermal layers modelled for the first three months of the war.

From reading this thread I may need to develop a "Random folder user's guide" for modders to follow!

One thing I will point out, although it won't be an issue for most users running SH3Cmdr R2.4 (if anyone's running an earlier release, why?!), is that if you have say 5 random folders with a different version of say SIM.CFG in each, and you then add this mod inclusive of 10 folders, you'll need to consider the impact this will have on the SIM.CFG randomisation. For example...

You start with:
\Random\0\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\1\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\2\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\3\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\4\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
which copies in a different version of SIM.CFG every time SH3Cmdr is loaded. You then add this mod and end up with:

\Random\0\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\0\19390901\data\Library\AI_sensors.dat
\Random\1\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\1\19390901\data\Library\AI_sensors.dat
\Random\2\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\2\19390901\data\Library\AI_sensors.dat
\Random\3\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\3\19390901\data\Library\AI_sensors.dat
\Random\4\19390901\data\SIM.CFG
\Random\4\19390901\data\Library\AI_sensors.dat
\Random\5\19390901\
\Random\6\19390901\
\Random\7\19390901\
\Random\8\19390901\
\Random\9\19390901\

This means that now a random number between 0 and 9 will be generated. If say 8 is generated, you won't get an AI_sensors.dat (which is correct), however, you also won't get a SIM.CFG - in other words the stock SH3 SIM.CFG will be used.

This may be OK, but this may also not be OK. To fix this is simply a matter of duplicating your SIM.CFG files into the newly created 5 to 9 Random folders.

Hope this is clear. Anyway, if you have any q's you know where I am!

Originally Posted by FullFathomFive

Not being able to use random thermals with the "realistic career" setting is well worth the trade off!

If you always run SH3 via SH3Cmdr with the "Realistic Career" option checked, running this mod will make no difference to your career length whatsoever.

[HEMISENT]

Jscones
Thanks for looking into this. If I already have a modified Sim.cfg set up as default that will not change correct? The default AI_Sensors.dat will be over ridden by Commander only if it chooses one of the 5 "loaded" files?
I've been running this setup and it works flawlessly so far. Am I missing something?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm currently working on a sabotage mod which will start to occur mid 1944 (normandy invasion) and increase as time goes on towards the end of the war years. Right now I'm thinking this will require probably 20 or 30 random folders. Previous discussions with you have led me to believe Commander can handle this many folders-correct?

Should I PM you?

As far as the 1939 start dates go....oops!

[JScones]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

If I already have a modified Sim.cfg set up as default that will not change correct? The default AI_Sensors.dat will be over ridden by Commander only if it chooses one of the 5 "loaded" files?

Correct.

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

I've been running this setup and it works flawlessly so far. Am I missing something?

Nup. Looks good.

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Right now I'm thinking this will require probably 20 or 30 random folders. Previous discussions with you have led me to believe Commander can handle this many folders-correct?

Yup.

What you are doing is spot on, my comments are really for other people that may have utilised the Random folder structure with other mods/ideas. They just need to be mindful of the impact adding extra random folders may have.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

What you are doing is spot on, my comments are really for other people that may have utilised the Random folder structure with other mods/ideas. They just need to be mindful of the impact adding extra random folders may have.

So if I do eventually add 20/30 folders for sabotage but still wish to retain the same ratio for existing "Thermals" I need to copy/paste "Thermal" files into the new additions to achieve the desired ratio?

[JScones]

Yup. Otherwise you will only have 5 AI_Sensors.dat files amongst 20/30 random folders - ie a 1 in 4/6 ratio instead of your current 1 in 2.

If you have 20 random folders for your sabotage component, you'll need 10 AI_Sensors.dat files. Just duplicate your 0 to 4 AI_Sensors.dat files across folders 5 to 9.

[irish1958]

if I use a mod that has an AI_sensor_dat file in it, such as the NYGM tonnage mod, the new IUB 1.03 mod, or the new Grey Wolf's mod, and I use the random feature, then that means I have deactivated the the AI_sensor file in the above mods. Is this correct?
Since a lot of people are going to be using these new mods, is it possible to have variations for each of these mods?

irish1958

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by irish1958

if I use a mod that has an AI_sensor_dat file in it, such as the NYGM tonnage mod, the new IUB 1.03 mod, or the new Grey Wolf's mod, and I use the random feature, then that means I have deactivated the the AI_sensor file in the above mods. Is this correct?
Since a lot of people are going to be using these new mods, is it possible to have variations for each of these mods?

irish1958

Irish1958, You are correct. The default AI_Sensors.dat file supplied in IUB/RUB/TW etc will be over ridden each time Commander chooses a "Loaded" file.

In my original release I included in the readme directions on how to modify your existing AI_Sensors file with Timetravellers Mini Tweaker.
If you are familiar with Mini Tweaker it's pretty simple, time consuming but simple.

DL the Thermal Mod, backup your original default file and make 5 copies, then install the first of the 5 AI_Sensor files, open the file in mini tweaker, take a screen shot & print out each of the required pages.

Once you have printouts of all the settings for 5 different depths then replace your original/default AI_Sensors file and make the required changes. Do this 5 times for 5 different depths. Now you will have the depth settings edited in Your AI_Sensors.dat file. Pull up the original readme. The entire operation start to finish should take about 30-45 minutes.

Unfortunately this is really time consuming and there are so many different versions of this file it would be impossible to provide copies of each and every one.

[JScones]

Hemisent, curiously, what values are changed in AI_Sensors.dat? Would it be a possible solution to have SH3Cmdr write these values on the fly (ie in much the same way that the Destroyer "Lost contact time" is randomised or the seasonal wave heights are applied)?

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

Hemisent, curiously, what values are changed in AI_Sensors.dat? Would it be a possible solution to have SH3Cmdr write these values on the fly (ie in much the same way that the Destroyer "Lost contact time" is randomised or the seasonal wave heights are applied)?

I honestly do not know what the differences are between the different AI_Sensors files. I am using a file given me by Caspofungin going back to the long pinpoint drop thread of a couple months back. This file has worked well for me delivering the type of "behaviour" we were all seeking.
Altho once Rubini merges his HT with the Tonnage War I think I'll pull out the AI_Sensors files and compare. Chances are the differences are minor.
(wishful thinking)

As for using Commander to somehow make things a bit easier I'm afraid I do not know all its capabilities and limitations. Writing the desired line items "On the Fly" sounds like a super idea. You mentioned a readme for Commander/Random earlier. I think this would be a great idea except that I'm unsure how many people are actually using it. I personally find it very intriguing but getting your head around all the possibilities and random ratios can be mind boggling escpecially when your dealing with potentially 30-40-50 folders. I get the feeling that there are not a whole lot of us using the random functions and I think it's because it is not fully understood. I've only gotten this far thru trial and error.

Right now the sabotage concept may end up with 40+ folders as I'm finding so many different areas that could possibly cause a boat to malfunction. Writing all these values on the fly would be a Godsend.
I've spent an unreal amount of time on just the VIIC diesel and elect speed breakdowns using mini tweaker for each setting. Back and Forth endlessly.

Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated

[VonHelsching]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

I honestly do not know what the differences are between the different AI_Sensors files. I am using a file given me by Caspofungin going back to the long pinpoint drop thread of a couple months back. This file has worked well for me delivering the type of "behaviour" we were all seeking.

A little OT, but while working on a personalised version of Advanced Damage, I used a GREAT program called ExamDiff, which is made for examining the differences between text files (freeware version). With the "pro" version you can examine also differences in other file types.

[JScones]

No, I meant what changes do *you* make to the files.

[gouldjg]

HEMISENT and others

you are stars

Your way ahead of me mates,

I think your explorations into the random capabilities are well worth watching and I am keeping a close eye on this thread from now on.

I was planning on returning to the game in a week or two and the first thing in my mind was that we have reached a state where we should add randomness to the game cos us modders work on the mods but then set sail knowing what to expect which kills our own gameplay so we go back to just testing all of the time.

I am after ways of setting unpredictability in the game and this thread is a great reference.

I am just going to read it from scratch and see whats been going on. Are you guys just working on thermal layers or have you got bigger plans?

I do not want to impede on other peoples plans, I would rather sit back or help to be honest.

[VonHelsching]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated

Hemisent, if you need any help, don't hesitate to PM me. I would like to be part and contribute to this concept.

VonHelsching

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

No, I meant what changes do *you* make to the files.

AI_Sensors.dat
AI_Hydrophones/ MinHeight=
AI_Sonar/MinHeight=
QGAP, QCIP, QCep MinHeight=
Type 144P MinHeight=
Type 138P MinHeight=
Type 128P MinHeight=
Type 123P MinHeight=

QGAA, QCIA, QCeA MinHeight=
Type 144A MinHeight=
Type 138A MinHeight=
Type 128A MinHeight=
Type 123A MinHeight=

Basically both the AI_Hdrophone & Sonar + all the named active & passives.

I make a complete set for each of the differing depths-5 sets total.
If you pull up my original readme it gives instructions on how to build your own setup. This might give you some idea of the process I went thru. If you could look at it and maybe suggest something easier that would work I would be grateful.

Right now I've run dozens of tests both campaign and single and the entire setup seems to work flawlessly.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

HEMISENT and others
I am just going to read it from scratch and see whats been going on. Are you guys just working on thermal layers or have you got bigger plans?

Hi Jason welcome back.
For right now the Thermal mod is done unless Jscones can come up with some ideas about easier implementation with Commander.
right now I'm halfway thru a Sabotage mod once again using Commander's random function.
Starting around mid 1944 (invasion time)thru the end of the war.
Here's a copy of the partially finished readme:

Types VIIC + all Type IX's affected

Systems affected:
Diesel & Elect max speed
Indicative of malfunction or sabotage prohibiting eng or E motors from attaining their maxinum speed potential. Possible sabotage to clutching/transmission components allowing engines/motors to achieve desired RPM but shafts themselves are not turning the correct RPM to produce required speed.

Diesel Range
Indicative of either leaking fuel tanks or engine fuel management system using excessive amounts of diesel to achieve desired performance.

E Motors Range
Indicative of worn out used batteries installed in place of fresh units on refit or sabotage to existing batteries. Batteries are able to charge as normal but do not hold the charge as long as specifications require.

Dive times increased
Simulating faulty or sabotaged valves or manifolds.
Reduced the amount/rate of incoming water required to rid the boat of bouyancy. This increases the standard & crash dive times by 25 - 35%.

I'm working on a couple other things but the above items are already tested and pretty much locked in.