Detected via Sonar Ping While Sitting Still?

[Radtgaeb]

All;

After years of not playing any subsim whatsoever, I fired up SH4 a couple nights ago and it seems like I'm back to square one as far as learning how to approach. I set up my S18 for a task force approach, and I was only about 200-300yds out from the predicted track line, so I put 'er in park for about 45 mins in-game-time....

...then a destroyer came along, immediately pinged me, and game over. What gives? I wasn't moving at all, I didn't have my periscope or radar mass raised, he just...pinged me sitting still then nailed me.

[Dread Knot]

Are you playing with any mods like TMO (Trigger Maru)? In that mod the Japanese can practically hear your heartbeat underwater.

[swdw]

Active sonar can only be avoided by a thermal layer. Running silent, sitting still, etc are of no help. In fact, remaining still when you get pinged is basically asking to be sunk.

Silent running and sitting still only work against hydrophones (passive sonar).

Against active sonar you have to listen for the shift from long range pinging to short pinging. This means they've shifted from search to targeting. Best defense is going deeper, hoping you find a thermal layer, and timing their run to know when to kick her in the pants and apply a hard rudder.

[Radtgaeb]

Yeah, I'm running TMO.


I guess my biggest question mark was...how did they evenknow where to ping if I didn't have engines running or any masts deployed to spot? How am I supposed to approach a convoy or TF if I'm going to be immediately spotlighted? I'd love a good, solid close approach guide and have scoured the forums for one but most only hit on plotting intercepts, not how to avoid getting yourself caught.


I feel like...back when I was in High School playing GWX on SH3 I never had this much frustration whilst trying to pursue a convoy.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Radtgaeb

Yeah, I'm running TMO.

Well there's your problem mate. TMO Escorts are basically omnipotent. In fact 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time they'll find you the moment you get within range of them. Makes for a lot of fun escape stories though.

[Radtgaeb]

Great. So what do you suggest? Escape stories are fun, but I'd also like tonnage. And SH4 vanilla is.....well, Sh4 vanilla.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Radtgaeb

Great. So what do you suggest? Escape stories are fun, but I'd also like tonnage. And SH4 vanilla is.....well, Sh4 vanilla.

Download the TMO compatible version of RSRD. It faithfully recreates nearly every convoy Japan had plus recreates nearly every single battle as well as you can with the game. Oh and the escorts start off easy but get harder as the war goes on.

[BigWalleye]

Not uncommon for escorts leading a convoy to actively search, hopefully to drive any lurking subs out of the way. If you're sitting still at shallow depth, you'd be hard to miss. Don't need TMO's uber-escorts.

[Radtgaeb]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

Not uncommon for escorts leading a convoy to actively search, hopefully to drive any lurking subs out of the way. If you're sitting still at shallow depth, you'd be hard to miss. Don't need TMO's uber-escorts.

Suggestions?

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Radtgaeb

Suggestions?

Only attack in shallow water if it's bad weather. Even then you should still avoid shallow water attacks at all costs.

[Radtgaeb]

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

Only attack in shallow water if it's bad weather. Even then you should still avoid shallow water attacks at all costs.

So...essentially never use parascope depth? Lol

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Radtgaeb

So...essentially never use parascope depth? Lol

Essentially it all depends on what mods you are using and what level of difficulty you like to play at. I would agree that TMO makes for unrealistic scenarios of detection (where detection would have been rare in real life).

Though escorts would actively ping on occasion while running with a convoy, if you're hunting in waters where they won't expect you, they shouldn't be readily detecting you. Sitting at periscope depth presenting your full broadside to enemy sonar (including passive) they're going to hear the general ambiance of your activities within the sub.

I prefer to enter a convoy from the front, running silent and under the thermal layer. This way, you're also presenting minimum hull profile to any prying sonar. When you hear the front DD's pass overhead, begin an expeditious albeit quiet run to P-depth (run your engines just fast enough to get up there in time to make an attack, but not so fast as to give you away. This comes with practice).

By this time you should have been tracking the convoy long enough to have obtained speed and course. You should have done this long before ever setting up for attack. The biggest reason virtual skippers fail in SH4 is because they fail to prepare. "By failing to prepare, you prepare to fail." -Ben Franklin. In this case, that couldn't be more true. Get your torps set, information logged, and numbers crunched PRIOR to even entering this position. Assuming that has been done, then continue with the attack.

It's gonna take practice timing your rise so that you come to P-depth precisely where you want to within the convoy.

Now at this point, you can launch an attack using two different ways, scope or active sonar (if you have it). I prefer to ping my targets for range and bearing prior to firing, because it seems to me I get spotted faster if I use my scope. Try to turn your sub at the last minute to be perpendicular to the convoy's track, bringing all tubes to bear on both sides of the convoy.

Go to your TDC, and set the little ship icon to match the enemies course. Turn on your PK (position keeper), and set the speed. Now go to your sonar, ping a target, any target, and quickly send your bearing and range to TDC. The reason I say quickly is because once you ping, the cat's out of the bag, and it's only a short matter of time before they begin zig-zagging and the DD's locate you within the convoy. By this time you have your AOB by setting the enemies course in the TDC and setting your PK to on. You have the speed from prior range/bearing readings when you were shadowing the convoy. With each ping, update the TDC, and fire. Ping, send, fire, repeat. I've never had a torp miss, only dud, using this method. Now since you're shooting relatively blind, you won't know what ships you just hit unless you had them picked out prior.

You probably won't want to stick around for long after all your tubes are expended. Dive to a safe depth, and run right under the remaining convoy for a while. Once you determine that you're safe to exit, do so deep and quiet, and ONLY clear silent running and begin loading tubes when you're sure you won't be busted. Get back on the enemies track, and set up for another attack. You can do this as much as you want, but each time the escorts will be looking for you a little more actively.

Sitting off the side of a convoy track, with full broadside presented, at P-depth, and yes you're asking to be pegged. The side escorts scan for subs to be exactly where you are. Be where they DON'T expect you to be. I call this tactic the "Surprise Bobber" attack. Where you pop up in the middle, wreak havoc without ever raising a scope, and diving back to safety like a ghost in the night.

Now this is how you play American subs in the Pacific in SH4. SH3+GWX3 is a whole nother animal. Happy Hunting!

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Radtgaeb

Suggestions?

Play RFB + RSRDC, instead.

I don't intend this as a shot against TMO, but when Duci was working on TMO, people wanted a harder game, and that's what he provided. The only way he had to do that, was to ramp up the AI sensors and skill levels of the escorts. This does make the escorts harder, but also makes the game unrealistic. With TMO, you really cannot succeed with historical tactics. With RFB, you can do well using historical methods. The escorts start out the war being pretty weak, but improve with time, as they should.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Play RFB + RSRDC, instead.

I don't intend this as a shot against TMO, but when Duci was working on TMO, people wanted a harder game, and that's what he provided. The only way he had to do that, was to ramp up the AI sensors and skill levels of the escorts. This does make the escorts harder, but also makes the game unrealistic. With TMO, you really cannot succeed with historical tactics. With RFB, you can do well using historical methods. The escorts start out the war being pretty weak, but improve with time, as they should.

If you use the TMO version of RSRD the escorts are easier. Plus you get a better overall mod as well.

[Diopos]

The following link is by Ducimus. It is for SH3 but the principles apply for SH4, too (he has referred to this link in similar post concerning SH4). BTW Ducimus is the moder behind the later versions of TMO.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

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