I just want to be the captain...

Staniol · 10-19-13, 12:24 PM

... in a simulated environment, is it possible?
Let me explain.
I expect my my crew to do their job, but want to avoid any arcade things.
For example, navigation.
I don't want to see moving dots on the map, just pencil marks, but I need the navigator to calculate the position when I ask him (and this should take time as it would in real life). I accept human error, and weather impact.
Same for attack, I have all these fine men on the ship to calculate distance, speed, identify target, and so on (again, in required time and human error).
If the crew is getting experience, faster and better in these things, that would be more fun.

So, what mods I would need for this?
All graphics mods and Open Horizons I assume, but on top of these, I have no clue.
If you have the time and the will... would you be so kind to help me out?
Thanks in advance.

aschar · 10-19-13, 03:09 PM

Fortunately, you're in luck. There's the Real Navigation mod that gives you exactly what you want; and yes, you can get lost in bad weather with Real Navigation. Sober's Mega Mod features Real Navigation, along with many other essential mods.

plj · 10-19-13, 05:09 PM

Yup, sounds to me you need to check out the sticky with sober's list, read post 1 and 2 carefully, then install the mods in his .mep list .. you can use the member all in one zip, but that does not have all the mods, you can use an available .mep file, but it might nog contain a current list. The list in post 1 is leading .. always.

If you follow instructions and use the referenced links, you should have little trouble .. feel free to ask if you run into issues.

Also, it seems a lot more complicated and immense to install then it actually is

Staniol · 10-21-13, 02:52 AM

Thanks for the prompt answers.
I am getting started with mods, and instead of doing all in one, I am trying to enable them 1 by 1 to understand the impact (well, except graph mods, I assume they make the game better that is why you all use it).
I am spending my time with the readme files now.
One question on navigation. I understand that the autmated script is forcing my navigator to check position frequently which he marks on my map with a pencil and this is great, but will he follow a course I plot on the map based on this information?

plj · 10-21-13, 02:58 AM

Real navigation has NO course plotting. That requires your position to be known .. something that you have to calculate (with error) in real navigation.

You have to plot the old way .. get your speed and the distance, and do a little math. frequent checking and some knowledge on coastlines is also adviced.

Impact of different mods on the whole is hard to determine in isolation. It's often multiple mods not playing nice together creating special effects in certain situations. Which makes it a PITA to diagnose. sober's list is very stable and very well researched. If you have a less beefy computer, Sjizzle's list should proove a good alternative.

THE_MASK · 10-21-13, 03:13 AM

Real navigation the easy way . Use options editor and make the game drop to 1TC on any message box message . Start the real navigation script . Head in which direction you want to go . 2 hours later the navigator will tell you he is working out where you are and the game will drop to 1TC . The navigator will put an x on the navmap . Change course or same course and TC to your desired level . You can turn drop game to 1TC on any message box message on or off at will .

gap · 10-21-13, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staniol

Thanks for the prompt answers.
I am getting started with mods, and instead of doing all in one, I am trying to enable them 1 by 1 to understand the impact (well, except graph mods, I assume they make the game better that is why you all use it).
I am spending my time with the readme files now.

Wise approach

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staniol

One question on navigation. I understand that the autmated script is forcing my navigator to check position frequently which he marks on my map with a pencil and this is great, but will he follow a course I plot on the map based on this information?

With real navigation, you will need to calculate your course, order the appropriate heading/speed manually, and again calculate how long reaching the desired point will take.

Staniol · 10-21-13, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Wise approach

With real navigation, you will need to calculate your course, order the appropriate heading/speed manually, and again calculate how long reaching the desired point will take.

Ahh, I see.
This is what I thought I can trust my Navigator with.
I plot a course for him, and he will calculate, modify heading, calculate, modify heading and so on... just wanna see reports that we are on course sir, we reached a waypoint or we totally lost for the last 4 hours sir. This would be the real thing, right?
So, this is what I am trying to achieve, being a captain (without doing everyone's job on the boat), but in a believable real environment (without magic moving icons on the map. )
Looks like I need more investigation how to achieve this.

Thanks anyway!

plj · 10-21-13, 03:37 AM

I agree that it's somwhat lost on me as well why I cant plot a course and have my navigator do his best to follow it, based on where he thinks we are. This would still mean manual navigation near coastlines tho .. as he somehow seems to think we are a hovercraft at times. If that happens with land on both sides, we can grab our towels and sunsscreen, as we wont be completing our mission in that case.

gap · 10-21-13, 03:54 AM

Yes, that's true: the navigator becomes sort of useless after enabling real navigation. Would be cool if we could simply mark a point on map, letting the nav officer to do the rest (with the due approximation indeed).
I think that the main factor preventing it, is the need to avoid land masses. Real navigation could take advantage of the campaign nodes (the ones followed by AI shipping), but if it was that easy I believe that TDW would have done it already.

Staniol · 10-21-13, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Yes, that's true: the navigator becomes sort of useless after enabling real navigation. Would be cool if we could simply mark a point on map, letting the nav officer to do the rest (with the due approximation indeed).
I think that the main factor preventing it, is the need to avoid land masses. Real navigation could take advantage of the campaign nodes (the ones followed by AI shipping), but if it was that easy I believe that TDW would have done it already.

Hmmm.
I have no problems to plot a course to avoid landmassess, I do not expect such an extraordinary clever behaviour from an AI to navigate around an island (honestly, how complex this can be?

), so I am ok as long as someone is knocking on my door in these cases, telling me that we are in shallow waters, and only you can solve it herr captain.
No problem to do some manual work, but if I plot safely, this would be rare.

Oh, and its just navigation... I assume my dream will get torpedoed as soon as we get to the fighting part...

THE_MASK · 10-21-13, 04:20 AM

Anytime I am about to run aground the game drops to 1TC and I reverse out .

gap · 10-21-13, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staniol

...I do not expect such an extraordinary clever behaviour from an AI to navigate around an island (honestly, how complex this can be?

)

making the navigator to follow a set of waypoints in a straight line (as in stock game): very easy;
setting him to behave as a blindfolded man trying to avoid obstacles: probably easy, but buggy and unrealistic;
coding a world-aware navigator: I am neither a programmer nor an expert of cybernetics, but I think it would be a very complex task...

Staniol · 10-21-13, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

Anytime I am about to run aground the game drops to 1TC and I reverse out .

Thanks, at least that looks good.

I have 2 questions regarding to this,
1, Do you guys think that its feasable to create a mod which enables the navigator to use real navigation to follow a plotted course?
2, is there a channel to ask for new mods?
(I don't know how hard to make these kind of mods so forgive me if I ask for something complex. I promise to read some modding tutorial...)

Once again, thank you for the answers, this is a helpful community.

plj · 10-21-13, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

making the navigator to follow a set of waypoints in a straight line (as in stock game): very easy;

If you add to that "based on where he thinks he is now", that would suffice and be a hell of a lot more realistic over having a navigator that is unable to plot any course whatsoever.

10-19-13, 12:24 PM	#1
Staniol Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Hungary Posts: 8 Downloads: 149 Uploads: 0	I just want to be the captain... ... in a simulated environment, is it possible? Let me explain. I expect my my crew to do their job, but want to avoid any arcade things. For example, navigation. I don't want to see moving dots on the map, just pencil marks, but I need the navigator to calculate the position when I ask him (and this should take time as it would in real life). I accept human error, and weather impact. Same for attack, I have all these fine men on the ship to calculate distance, speed, identify target, and so on (again, in required time and human error). If the crew is getting experience, faster and better in these things, that would be more fun. So, what mods I would need for this? All graphics mods and Open Horizons I assume, but on top of these, I have no clue. If you have the time and the will... would you be so kind to help me out? Thanks in advance.

10-21-13, 03:54 AM	#10
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	Yes, that's true: the navigator becomes sort of useless after enabling real navigation. Would be cool if we could simply mark a point on map, letting the nav officer to do the rest (with the due approximation indeed). I think that the main factor preventing it, is the need to avoid land masses. Real navigation could take advantage of the campaign nodes (the ones followed by AI shipping), but if it was that easy I believe that TDW would have done it already. __________________ _____________________ \|May the Force be with you!\| ...\/

10-19-13, 03:09 PM	#2
aschar Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Washington State, US Posts: 13 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Fortunately, you're in luck. There's the Real Navigation mod that gives you exactly what you want; and yes, you can get lost in bad weather with Real Navigation. Sober's Mega Mod features Real Navigation, along with many other essential mods.

10-19-13, 05:09 PM	#3
plj Captain Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 542 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	Yup, sounds to me you need to check out the sticky with sober's list, read post 1 and 2 carefully, then install the mods in his .mep list .. you can use the member all in one zip, but that does not have all the mods, you can use an available .mep file, but it might nog contain a current list. The list in post 1 is leading .. always. If you follow instructions and use the referenced links, you should have little trouble .. feel free to ask if you run into issues. Also, it seems a lot more complicated and immense to install then it actually is

10-21-13, 02:52 AM	#4
Staniol Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Hungary Posts: 8 Downloads: 149 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the prompt answers. I am getting started with mods, and instead of doing all in one, I am trying to enable them 1 by 1 to understand the impact (well, except graph mods, I assume they make the game better that is why you all use it). I am spending my time with the readme files now. One question on navigation. I understand that the autmated script is forcing my navigator to check position frequently which he marks on my map with a pencil and this is great, but will he follow a course I plot on the map based on this information?

10-21-13, 02:58 AM	#5
plj Captain Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 542 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	Real navigation has NO course plotting. That requires your position to be known .. something that you have to calculate (with error) in real navigation. You have to plot the old way .. get your speed and the distance, and do a little math. frequent checking and some knowledge on coastlines is also adviced. Impact of different mods on the whole is hard to determine in isolation. It's often multiple mods not playing nice together creating special effects in certain situations. Which makes it a PITA to diagnose. sober's list is very stable and very well researched. If you have a less beefy computer, Sjizzle's list should proove a good alternative.

10-21-13, 03:13 AM	#6
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	Real navigation the easy way . Use options editor and make the game drop to 1TC on any message box message . Start the real navigation script . Head in which direction you want to go . 2 hours later the navigator will tell you he is working out where you are and the game will drop to 1TC . The navigator will put an x on the navmap . Change course or same course and TC to your desired level . You can turn drop game to 1TC on any message box message on or off at will .

10-21-13, 03:37 AM	#9
plj Captain Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 542 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	I agree that it's somwhat lost on me as well why I cant plot a course and have my navigator do his best to follow it, based on where he thinks we are. This would still mean manual navigation near coastlines tho .. as he somehow seems to think we are a hovercraft at times. If that happens with land on both sides, we can grab our towels and sunsscreen, as we wont be completing our mission in that case.

10-21-13, 04:20 AM	#12
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	Anytime I am about to run aground the game drops to 1TC and I reverse out .